Keep ALive in Newer LGB MFX locos

[gn13565]

Hi,

I've tried researching this on the web but hit a brick wall.

Do the latest/recent MFX LGB locos come with a stayalive buffer? If not is it possible to fit one?

I have seen suggestions that it is possible to fit an LGB 60974 MFX Power Buffer, but the Marklin web site has very little detail on this product.

Most of my locos are older units upgraded by me with Zimo and ESU decoders with no problem, its that I'd like to get some newer locos, but dont fancy binning the new decoders.

Thanks in advance

Greg

 

[LGB333]

Hi,

I've tried researching this on the web but hit a brick wall.

Do the latest/recent MFX LGB locos come with a stayalive buffer? If not is it possible to fit one?

I have seen suggestions that it is possible to fit an LGB 60974 MFX Power Buffer, but the Marklin web site has very little detail on this product.

Most of my locos are older units upgraded by me with Zimo and ESU decoders with no problem, its that I'd like to get some newer locos, but dont fancy binning the new decoders.

Thanks in advance

Greg

Hi Again Greg - I don't believe the Marklin-produced LGB locomotives with their 2014 and after MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders have power caps installed.......there could be an exception or two. Below you'll see the MSD3 sound decoder installed in an LGB 26844 from my personal locomotive collection which has no power caps. However, Marklin does offer the LGB 55429 Power Storage Device as an accessory for these MSD3 decoders. The second photo shows how and where to install the device on the top of the sound board.......super small connector that you push down. You can also see the connector on the actual sound decoder board for my locomotive. I sell the LGB 55429 for $65.

 

[phils2um]

Do the latest/recent MFX LGB locos come with a stayalive buffer?

Yes, they do. The decoder addendum titled Additional information about the LGB decoder with up to 32 functions, for the 27-pin interface connector included with the most recent locos states on page 10 that the decoders do have a built-in voltage buffer with "extensive" setting options. I've not tried changing any of the settings. So far, I've not needed to.

 

[LGB333]

Yes, they do. The decoder addendum titled Additional information about the LGB decoder with up to 32 functions, for the 27-pin interface connector included with the most recent locos states on page 10 that the decoders do have a built-in voltage buffer with "extensive" setting options. I've not tried changing any of the settings. So far, I've not needed to.

Phil - I do see that statement in the Addendum. On my LGB 26844 IVK Steamer, I don't see the buffers so they must be very small like the power buffers on the ESU 5XL sound decoders which don't hold much charge. The LGB 55029 Retrofit mfx/dcc/analog sound decoder also states there's a buffer. The manual basic states they help keep the sound operating in short areas of track without voltage......I doubt they would provide much help to keep the motor going. The built-in buffers on the Marklin MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decoders should be supplemented by use of the LGB 55429 Power Storage Device (power caps) if they are insufficient to power the sound and the motor(s) through track frogs and rail joint connectivity problem areas.

As a DCC user, I haven't found any need for installing power caps on any of my locomotives except the LGB Olomana and Chloe which have very short wheel bases and need the power caps to get through LGB track frogs. I install the Soundtraxx Tsunami2 TSU2200 DCC sound decoder into these very small locomotives along with the Soundtraxx Current-Keeper power cap which works like a charm.

 

[LGB333]

Hi,

I've tried researching this on the web but hit a brick wall.

Do the latest/recent MFX LGB locos come with a stayalive buffer? If not is it possible to fit one?

I have seen suggestions that it is possible to fit an LGB 60974 MFX Power Buffer, but the Marklin web site has very little detail on this product.

Most of my locos are older units upgraded by me with Zimo and ESU decoders with no problem, its that I'd like to get some newer locos, but dont fancy binning the new decoders.

Thanks in advance

Greg

Greg - What specific issues do you have with your track layout that requires the power caps for your locomotives..........just curious?

 

[gn13565]

Greg - What specific issues do you have with your track layout that requires the power caps for your locomotives..........just curious?

Hey Tom,

I've had some stuttery running with older shorter wheelbase locos, so I guess once burned I like to go belt and braces. Maybe I don't actually need them.

Thx

Greg

 

[Diesel2000]

I just finished installing the 55429 power buffers into the new 21671 Track Cleaner Loco that has an MSD3 decoder. I was out a few weeks ago cleaning the track for the first time in a few months and the winter grime buildup caused the track cleaner to stall in some areas. the Schoma-style wheelbase is short and only gets pickup from the wheels and 1 set of shoes, similar to a Stainz.

There's a video in German I found for the install:

Its dead simple to do and I mounted the LGB caps in the same space inside the cab. Thats the only place it will fit in this loco.

So far it appears to be completely plug and play, although there are multiple settings in the manual that allow you to assign power buffer capability to individual functions like motor, lights, sound, AUX (smoke), etc. Like Phil I have not needed to adjust anything and the buffer by default is power everything. So far this seems to work very well and for the 2167x track cleaners is probably a very good idea.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Other than adding more pickups, there is no other solution for short wheelbase locos with limited pickups, reference question in #5

Greg

 

[Dan]

The 55429 looks to have 6 of the 2.7 farads which gives 16.2 volts max for the charge. Many supplies and esp DCC have more voltage than this on the rails. In the past the power storage module from LGB was only used for the sound. Perhaps this new one is like the Zimo decoders and they had an internal 16 volt connection for dirty track and worked for all decoder outputs such as sound, lights, smoke, motor, etc.

 

[LGB333]

The 55429 looks to have 6 of the 2.7 farads which gives 16.2 volts max for the charge. Many supplies and esp DCC have more voltage than this on the rails. In the past the power storage module from LGB was only used for the sound. Perhaps this new one is like the Zimo decoders and they had an internal 16 volt connection for dirty track and worked for all decoder outputs such as sound, lights, smoke, motor, etc.

Dan, the Massoth Maxi Power Caps Device I installed into my older LGB 21670 DCC Track Cleaning Locomotive (non-MSD3 mfx/dcc decoder) provides plenty of power to the main motor, not the cleaning motor, to traverse track switch frogs and other track connectivity issues. I'll be interested in hearing from Diesel2000 (Tim) how the LGB 55429 powercaps work installed on his newer LGB 21671 Track Cleaner.

 

[Andrew_au]

Do you need to unplug the caps to program the decoder, or is there circuitry in there to take care of that automatically?

 

[LGB333]

I believe the Massoth PowerCaps have the feature to accommodate CV Writing. I've not needed to do any programming on my LGB Track Cleaner other than changing CV1 Address, which worked fine.

 

[palmerston]

I believe mfx dekoders dont use pulses to set and read CVs. In dcc mode have to wait until the energie runs out Lgb55429

 

[phils2um]

The 55429 looks to have 6 of the 2.7 farads which gives 16.2 volts max for the charge.

Dan, That would be a charge capacity of 16.2 farads (assuming they are wired in parallel), not 16.2 volts. Farads and voltage are different animals. The voltage across the capacitor depends on the circuit it is in.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

just a note: reading a CV in service mode in DCC is done by the DECODER putting a LOAD on the rails, it does not technically produce pulses.

(that is typically why the motor jumps a bit when reading, the motor is connected to the rails, thus drawing current in a pattern the command station can read)

Greg

 

[phils2um]

I just finished installing the 55429 power buffers into the new 21671 Track Cleaner Loco that has an MSD3 decoder.

HI Diesel, thanks for posting the video link. I finally broke down and bought one of the new 21671 track cleaning locos earlier this year myself. Got a great price on it from Jim, LGB TRAIN SHOP, with his additional 10% off after Christmas sale. I got a chance to try it out (other than just making sure it ran) late last week. I really like the one function button that sets everything, including speed, to what Märklin recommends for ideal track cleaning. I don't know if earlier versions had this feature. It does do a great job cleaning the rails! I did have it stall at one location on my RR. It consistently stalled when traveling the straight route on one of my LGB R5 turnouts. It did not matter from which direction the switch was approached. The loco would traverse the turnout fine when it was set for the diverging route. This one turnout is the only spot where the loco lost power. Go figure. I have not gotten around to checking the buffer settings on the loco yet but went ahead and ordered one of the 55429 buffer packs to install additional buffer capacity to it anyway.

 

[Neil Robinson]

It consistently stalled when traveling the straight route on one of my LGB R5 turnouts. It did not matter from which direction the switch was approached. The loco would traverse the turnout fine when it was set for the diverging route. This one turnout is the only spot where the loco lost power. Go figure.

Check that power is reaching the straight blade of the turnout. One of the connections underneath may have failed. The track cleaner pickups are fairly close together compared to some larger locos.

 

[palmerston]

Ive watched the video in message #7. Mr. Andreas Franz recomments CV263 should have the value of 191 in order to buffer the cleaning motor which is connected to AUX6.

 

[Diesel2000]

Ive watched the video in message #7. Mr. Andreas Franz recomments CV263 should have the value of 191 in order to buffer the cleaning motor which is connected to AUX6.

I did some testing on my workbench today and the 55429 does require some CV setting changes in order to operate - at least in the 21671 track cleaner loco. After installing the keep alive and removing DCC power only the front lights would stay on. The default setting is CV263=1 as shown in the manual photo above, so this behavior is expected. By default nothing else is being buffered.

I was able to get all functions to stay on by setting the following:
CV260=15 (all on)
CV263=255 (all on)

Making those changes appears to alter the values in 270-272.

Now the cleaning motor, driving motor, all lights, and sound all stay on when DCC power is removed running on the 55429.

A few things to note:

1. The 55429 takes a while to reach full charge - like several minutes, so dont expect it to work right out of the gate. Give it 5 minutes to charge up.
2. The cleaning motor will drop in voltage significantly. The same happens on my 21670 cleaner that has Massoth power caps installed, so thats just a normal function of running on keep alive power.
3. The sound will start to cut in an out. I may try to disable buffering for sound and see how this affects things.
4. The blink roof lights - one will stop, but when power is reapplied they will be slightly out of original sequence.

Overall I'd say its all working as expected now and should be able to combat sections of extremely dirty track or plastic frogs where the short wheelbase loses connection.

 

[phils2um]

Check that power is reaching the straight blade of the turnout.

I added some clamps to make sure power was getting to the point blades. Turns out power to the point blades was not the problem. (And it will not be one in the future now either!) Pun not intended.



I am fairly sure the problem is at the long plastic frog the R5 turnouts have. The frog is longer than wheelbase of the power pickups in the track cleaner. The conducting stainless steel strips in the bottom of the frog flange ways have been pitted from arcing over the years and I don't think the track cleaner's flanges are making good contact. The diverging route sees much less use which explains why that SS strip is in better shape and the track cleaner traverses this turnout setting OK.