ESU CabControl - Changing Address on LGB/MFX?

[LGB333]

UPDATE ON THE ESU CABCONTROL DCC COMMAND STATION: I inserted a 25W 100Ohm resistor on one of the Program Output Terminal's wires to the Programming Track. Now the CABCONTROL can Read and Write CVs on the LGB locomotives (since 2014) with the Marklin MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders installed........works like a charm!

Here's another data point about the ESU CABCONTROL DCC and ECOS Multi-Technology Command Stations and the Marklin CS3/+ Multi-technology Command Stations: Their Service Mode Programming Track output is continuously powered, not just when the Read or Write command is executed. On my CABCONTROL test the voltage was continuously 15.8 volts DCC except when I executed a Read or Write command, my DCC RRampMeter then read 13 - 11 - 13 then back to 15.8 volts; the output on the Main was 19.8 volts DCC. I could also activate the motor movement and F Key sounds on the Programming Track.

In fact, the ECOS User Guide states that the Programming Track can be used as a secondary output to a isolated block on the Main Track similar to a Booster. I'd be interested in understanding why ESU and Marklin designed their Service Mode output in this manner, perhaps it's required for their mfx, M4 and other non-DCC protocols. So obviously the DCC protocol for Service Mode Programming in these ESU and Marklin products are not compliant with the NMRA DCC Standard........interesting!

 

[phils2um]

You may recall in 2018 that just about all of the LGB sound locomotives Marklin produced had a statement in the User Guide that indicated the locomotive could be operated in DC analog but the sound was turned off. And it required using a Marklin CS2/3 Command Station to turn it on, other brand DCC systems couldn't do it.

I happened to be reviewing some things looking for something else and came across the above. The first sentence above is technically correct - that's what the manual said. But, it was not true. Almost all locos with one notable exception havig this generation multi-protocol decoder came with running sounds active in analog operation as shown in the table of "Controllable Functions" appearing later in the manual. This is easily verified by running the locos with analog track power.

The second sentence is not correct. Any of the functions can be made to operate during analog operation by making the appropriate changes to CVs 13 and 14 using the DCC protocol in service mode. This can be done with just about any DCC system with a programming track output. I've done it with a Massoth PC Module. However, I doubt anyone would want the whistle or station announcements to be continuously sounding!

Just setting the record straight.

 

[LGB333]

I happened to be reviewing some things looking for something else and came across the above. The first sentence above is technically correct - that's what the manual said. But, it was not true. Almost all locos with one notable exception havig this generation multi-protocol decoder came with running sounds active in analog operation as shown in the table of "Controllable Functions" appearing later in the manual. This is easily verified by running the locos with analog track power.

The second sentence is not correct. Any of the functions can be made to operate during analog operation by making the appropriate changes to CVs 13 and 14 using the DCC protocol in service mode. This can be done with just about any DCC system with a programming track output. I've done it with a Massoth PC Module. However, I doubt anyone would want the whistle or station announcements to be continuously sounding!

Just setting the record straight.

phils2um - You must have a lot of spare time to be reviewing four year old postings. Regardless, no one should use a four year old posting for answering a current question.....technology and knowledge of the technology continually changes. Back in 2018 I had no knowledge of the Marklin MSD3 decoders and was trying to answer a hobbyist's question why he couldn't get the sounds to work on his newly purchased analog-operated LGB 28443 locomotive. AllAboutLGB.com said you needed a Marklin CS command station to activate the sound on that MSD3 locomotive's decoder. And, since then, the older version of MSD3 decoders in the 28443 locomotives were upgraded by Marklin in 2019 to a newer version in the LGB locomotives produced.

The LGB 28443 User Guide states "The built-in sound functions come from the factory inactive for analog operation" but don't state how to activate them. You state " Any of the functions can be made to operate during analog operation by making the appropriate changes to CVs 13 and 14 using the DCC protocol in service mode." So, using your words, to further set the record straight, please explain, what are the specific CV values to use to in CV 13 and CV14 to activate this decoder's sounds for analog operation? I've attached the LGB 28443's F Key Listing and Register CV Listing for your use.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

That information would be very useful to many people.

 

[phils2um]

CV13 and CV14 are bitwise switches like CV29. They determine which functions are active in analog (or as MLGB call it: "alternative track signal") operation. CV13 activates F1 through F8. CV14 activates the light function and F9-F15.

CV13/CV14 --- OFF --- ON
F1/Lights -------0 -----1
F2/F9 ---------- 0 ---- 2
F3/F10 --------- 0 ---- 4
F4/F11 ----------0 ---- 8
F5/F12 --------- 0 ---- 16
F6/F13 --------- 0 ---- 32
F7/F14 ---------0 ----64
F8/F15 ---------0 ----128

Add together the values of functions to be active in analog operation. For example if F1, F3 and F6 are desired set CV13 = (1 + 4 + 32) = 37.

For example my LGB 21427 RhB Ge 4/4 III has CV13=96 and CV14=1 as factory defaults. This translates to F6 (32) and F7 (64) active in analog operation for CV13. That is running sounds and direction dependent raising/lowering of the pantographs. The lights are also on in analog operation, the light function (1) is active in CV14. This also happens to correspond to the tables Tom posted in #83 which appear to be from a similar LGB twin pantograph electric loco. Check the footnotes in the first table , the Function table for what is active in analog operation.

By the way Tom, did you actually test the 28443 with analog power? I believe you'll find the running sounds are active.


Edited to clarify how CVs 13 and 14 function as "bit-wise switches".

 

[phils2um]

phils2um - You must have a lot of spare time to be reviewing four year old postings.

Tom, who's being snarky now! I was responding to what you had written Apr 29 of this year in your post no. 43 of this thread.
It just so happens, as I stated, I was looking for something specific I had posted earlier to actually provide some useful information in another thread on this forum.

 

[LGB333]

Tom, who's being snarky now! I was responding to what you had written Apr 29 of this year in your post no. 43 of this thread.
It just so happens, as I stated, I was looking for something specific I had posted earlier to actually provide some useful information in another thread on this forum.

You're right, my statement in Post #43 is incorrect and I have deleted it. I thought you were referring to my postings back in 2018 which are now out-of-date. In #43, I was providing some history about the Marklin MSD3 sound decoders and should have been more specific to what I was told in 2018. Back in 2018, no one in the US had much knowledge about these decoders, including Ron Gibson, the USA LGB Rep for Marklin at the time. In 2018, since someone told me you must use a Marklin CS to activate the sound for analog mode, I posted the question on the large scale forums and one person claimed you could use a DCC system and would test it on his own locomotive, but then never confirmed he successfully did it. I didn't have the LGB 28443 locomotive at the time to test it myself.

 

[phils2um]

Anyone interested in changing CVs in the latest two generations of MLGB multi-protocol decoders using a DCC system might be interested in (re)reading this thread: https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/mfx-decoder-sound-on-analogue-power.315607/ MLGB has been installing these type decoders in locos since about 2014.

The gist of it is: you must operate locos equipped wth these decoders on a DCC protocol system just before modifying the CVs using the DCC protocol. You must operate it with its assigned DCC address, whether the factory default 3 or whatever other address might have been assigned. This sets the decoder to expect DCC protocol commands for both operating and programming. Otherwise, the decoder expects to be modified by the mfx protocol and ignores DCC programming commands. Also, operating the decoder with any system other than DCC, including analog causes the decoder to revert to expecting the mfx protocol for programming.

One other note: It is probably a good idea to turn off the mfx protocol completely by setting CV50 = 0 or 2 if you will only be using your MLGB multi-protocol loco on DCC or DCC and analog DC systems. CV50 = 0 denotes DCC protocol only, CV50 = 2 allows DCC and analog DC as operating options. Check your manual's list of CVs to verify CV50 controls operating modes for your decoder before making any changes! CV50 is best left at the factory default if the loco is only operated on analog DC systems.

Edited to clarify CV50 setting for analog DC only operation

 

[dunnyrail]

Anyone interested in changing CVs in the latest two generations of MLGB multi-protocol decoders using a DCC system might be interested in (re)reading this thread: https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/mfx-decoder-sound-on-analogue-power.315607/ MLGB has been installing these type decoders in locos since about 2014.

The gist of it is: you must operate locos equipped wth these decoders on a DCC protocol system just before modifying the CVs using the DCC protocol. You must operate it with its assigned DCC address, whether the factory default 3 or whatever other address might have been assigned. This sets the decoder to expect DCC protocol commands for both operating and programming. Otherwise, the decoder expects to be modified by the mfx protocol and ignores DCC programming commands. Also, operating the decoder with any system other than DCC, including analog causes the decoder to revert to expecting the mfx protocol for programming.

One other note: It is probably a good idea to turn off the mfx protocol completely by setting CV50 = 0 or 2 if you will only be using your MLGB multi-protocol loco on DCC or analog DC systems. CV50 = 0 denotes DCC protocol only, CV50 = 2 allows DCC and analog DC as operating options.

Hm just recently updated a MLGB loco on my Massoth system for Palstig. only the sound loudness CV, but he current only runs on analog. Is this a problem?

 

[phils2um]

but he current only runs on analog. Is this a problem?

No, CV50 should probably be left at the factory default setting if a loco with these MLGB multi-protocol decoders is only operated on an analog system . There is no operational advantage to turning off any of the digital protocols in this situation.

It is probably a good idea to label any locos that have had operating modes disabled. Such as a piece of tape on the bottom which states "DCC only" or "DCC and analog DC only".

I just edited my post #88 to clarify.

 

[LGB333]

Anyone interested in changing CVs in the latest two generations of MLGB multi-protocol decoders using a DCC system might be interested in (re)reading this thread: https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/mfx-decoder-sound-on-analogue-power.315607/ MLGB has been installing these type decoders in locos since about 2014.

The gist of it is: you must operate locos equipped wth these decoders on a DCC protocol system just before modifying the CVs using the DCC protocol. You must operate it with its assigned DCC address, whether the factory default 3 or whatever other address might have been assigned. This sets the decoder to expect DCC protocol commands for both operating and programming. Otherwise, the decoder expects to be modified by the mfx protocol and ignores DCC programming commands. Also, operating the decoder with any system other than DCC, including analog causes the decoder to revert to expecting the mfx protocol for programming.

One other note: It is probably a good idea to turn off the mfx protocol completely by setting CV50 = 0 or 2 if you will only be using your MLGB multi-protocol loco on DCC or DCC and analog DC systems. CV50 = 0 denotes DCC protocol only, CV50 = 2 allows DCC and analog DC as operating options. Check your manual's list of CVs to verify CV50 controls operating modes for your decoder before making any changes! CV50 is best left at the factory default if the loco is only operated on analog DC systems.

Edited to clarify CV50 setting for analog DC only operation

Hello Folks - Below is the guidance I received this week from the Marklin Service Department on activating analog sounds, when necessary, on the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders and on the process for programming the decoders using DCC mode. According the Marklin, you use CV 13 and CV 14 to activate the analog sounds if the locomotive isn't already set for analog from the factory........this process mirrors phils2um's statements. But there's no need to pre-prep the decoder for accepting Service Mode programming commands when using a DCC-only command station. You can just send them from the get-go on your DCC programming track.....and I've also found that true when programming these MSD3 decoders. If anyone has encountered some issue, it's because they are using a multi-protocol command station such as the Marklin CS2/3 or the ESU ECOS (M4 is their term for mfx). I've used the following DCC-only command stations to program the MSD3 decoders without any problem: Massoth 1210Z; Piko 35010; ESU CabControl (using resistor).

MARKLIN RESPONSE:
Hello Mr. White, to activate sounds for analog operation you should change the values at CV 13 and 14. The deeded values result from the sounds, that should work. For example in CV13 you can activate F1 with bit 1, and F2 with bit 2 ... If your control unit is a mfx-control unit, such as Central Station 2 / 3, you must turn off mfx on the decoder to use DCC. But if you use a control unit that uses no mfx but only DCC, the decoder will switch to DCC also.
With kind regards
Your Märklin customer adviser
Markus Schamall
Gebr. Märklin& Cie. GmbH
Kundenservice
Postfach 960
D-73009 Göppingen

Hello Maerklin Service – The LGB 29443 User Guide states “The Built-in sound functions come from the factory inactive for analog operation.” You can do this also in DCC.
Question #1: What CVs must be changed and to what values to activate the sounds for analog operation? And can this be performed using a DCC system or must only the Marklin CS or Mobile Station be used?
Question #2: Can the CV values listed in the LGB 29443 Register Listing be changed using a DCC system or must the mfx protocol be first turned off using CV50, or can the mfx protocol be left active?
There’s confusion about the above questions by many DCC hobbyists here in the USA that operate LGB locomotives with the MSD3 sound decoders installed.
Many thanks!
Thomas White – Proprietor/LGB Repair Specialist
Old Dominion Railways – LGB Trains Dealer & Authorized Service Center
LGB Locomotive Sales, Repairs & DCC Sound Decoder Installations
Products: LGB – ESU – Massoth – Soundtraxx – MD Electronics
Website: https://www.olddominionrailways.com
Email: Olddominionrailways@gmail.com
Location: Mclean, Northern Virginia
Telephone: 703-946-4522

 

[phils2um]

But there's no need to pre-prep the decoder for accepting Service Mode programming commands when using a DCC-only command station.

HI Tom and others,

This may be the case with the latest 32 function MSD3 decoders as you have apparently verified. I've not tried it myself. However, the first generation, 16 function MLGB multi-protocol decoders definitely required operation on a DCC protocol system in order to modify CVs using DCC protocol. Many of us have discovered this the hard way after a whole lot of this!

 

[phils2um]

This discussion of 32 function MSD3 decoders prompted me look into setting F16-F31 to on for analog systems. The Märklin 27 pin, 32 function decoder Additional Information... booklet shows on page 15 CV262 and CV263 need to be modified. In order to change these the index CVs, CV31=17 and CV32=2 need to be set first. Then the bit-wise switches CV262 and CV263 can be modified. CV262 is for F16-F23 and CV263 sets F24-F31. (Note that CVs 260 and 261 duplicate CVs 13 and 14.)