How would you advise someone converting to digital?

Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
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Pennsylvania, USA
I've just come to this thread and cannot resist. Forget everything and convert to battery power.....:rofl:
 
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Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,625
98
North Essex
I've just come to this thread and cannot resist. Forget everything and convert to battery power.....:rofl:
Well, perhaps you SHOULD have resisted, Dan! ;)

This is an exceedingly divisive topic, almost as bad as politics or even the Mac/PC debate, and equally unlikely to ever be laid to rest.
Track power (DC or DCC) works just fine for lots and lots of people.
Battery RC works just fine for many people too.
Some of us happily do both, and don't consider either one "better" than the other.
Both will give you endless trouble if you try to skimp or bodge things.

What's the old saying: "There are none so devout as the converted"...... in this case, converted to battery power......
'Nuff said.....?

Jon.
 
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Ralphmp

Ralphmp

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6 Jan 2010
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5
Herts
There's a Mac/PC debate?!! >:)
 
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Ralphmp

Ralphmp

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6 Jan 2010
782
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Herts
On a serious note, I have had issues reading CVs 8 and 255 on used locos I've acquired - in some cases the PC module has simply reported an error reading the CV, in others the values didn't make any sense. I also had a used steam loco that, when I bought it from a retailer, I was assured had been professionally fitted with the latest eMotion S decoder with the correct sound file. When I took a look inside it turned out to be a very early eMotion S with a label on it stating it was for a Diesel locomotive...

Moral of the story, the only way to be sure what you've got is, as previous posters have recommended, to open up the loco and confirm the decoder(s) fitted using the good old Mark 1 eyeball.
 
stockers

stockers

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
Staff member
GSC Moderator
24 Oct 2009
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Us moderators have been discussing pointless or argumentative posts, that only serve to disrupt a thread. Anticipate the occasional deletion in future. It is not personal, we just want to clean up threads.
 
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Slawman

Slawman

Deckline
9 Apr 2018
277
0
Sydney
Well I would like to weigh in on this.

Converting to digital to me is a no-brainer.

Who is still using a Nokia?

Is there anyone out there still using a fax machine?

4k TV looks spectacular and just like so I love my digital train systems.....
 
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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Right chaps, so i have done some of my homework.

I re-configured the loco to serial with 14 speed steps, and then I tried to pulse button 1 on my Navigator 3 4 or 5 times, but nothing happened.

There is also this odd thing. I had understood from previous comments that if you configure the loco 'wrongly' on your Navi in terms of serial vs parallel, you will know this because the lights don't work properly. That isnt the case here. They work fine in both configurations. And it is definitely working fine overall on 28P. Each individual speed step change is clearly visible.

I reached my repair guy. He did indeed open up the loco and to idenitfy the chip. those numbers he gave me are numbers he found written on the chip. But he is a general rail modeller and doesn't really know what to do next in terms of diagnosing the problem, although generally he agrees that reading CVs is a start. So I will now try to work out how to do that, so as to give muns muns the information he asked for. That may take me a while...
 
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RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
This may or may not be signi
101492_52fb8d6d15ac07a25a58840ce35d4db1.jpg
ficant.
While trying to do muns muns homework :) I got this far, and noticed the last option in that list: "Analog/Dig" is set to "A". Now the trouble is, I could not reach it to try and change it. Pressing M1 only got me to the second option on the list "address". It won't go any further?
Is it significant, and if so, how am I supposed to reach it and change it to digital?
As for reading CVs i was reminded earlier in the thread that I need to do this on the test track, which i will have to rig up, so bear with me on that.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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If that is reading the setting in CV29, that means Analog Conversion is enabled, i.e. the decoder will recognize analog DC and run. This setting NEVER disables it's ability (and desire!) to recognize and operate on DCC signals.

So, if this is indeed the decoder setting, and specifically CV29, which the rest of the screen seems to agree with, it makes no difference.... all you can do is enable/disable the operation on Analog, you never affect the DCC recognition.

Greg
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
If that is reading the setting in CV29, that means Analog Conversion is enabled, i.e. the decoder will recognize analog DC and run. This setting NEVER disables it's ability (and desire!) to recognize and operate on DCC signals.

So, if this is indeed the decoder setting, and specifically CV29, which the rest of the screen seems to agree with, it makes no difference.... all you can do is enable/disable the operation on Analog, you never affect the DCC recognition.

Greg
So Greg, if I understand right, you don't think this has any relevance to the inability to activate other sounds etc ?
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
634
110
Exeter, Devon, UK
Re the picture you posted in post 150, I notice no loco address has been assigned?
 
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RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Re the picture you posted in post 150, I notice no loco address has been assigned?
Well, again, please bear with me for my greeness but I believe it is assigned, it is 00001 on my Navi, as you can see in the photo.

Massoth Navigator puzzles me. And that's putting it mildly....
 

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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Well, perhaps you SHOULD have resisted, Dan! ;)

This is an exceedingly divisive topic, almost as bad as politics or even the Mac/PC debate, and equally unlikely to ever be laid to rest.
Track power (DC or DCC) works just fine for lots and lots of people.
Battery RC works just fine for many people too.
Some of us happily do both, and don't consider either one "better" than the other.
Both will give you endless trouble if you try to skimp or bodge things.

What's the old saying: "There are none so devout as the converted"...... in this case, converted to battery power......
'Nuff said.....?

Jon.
Well since I started this thread, maybe I can comment, after a few months with digital.

One of the things I have learnt from GSC is that our hobby is multi-layered, people enjoy it in different ways, according to their personal interests and talents. I reckon the same applies to our interests in real trains. A train took my Dad to work, and more importantly brought him back home. Trains bring people together (or bring them stuff they need). As a kid, I knew the diesels of my beloved Western Region, where my Nan lived, were "diesel hydraulic", but i can't explain anything much about the significance of D-H.
When it comes to the model railway, I personally enjoy creating a little life in miniature, a little country narrow guage line where life is simpler, people gather in the station pub and have a modest good time. Thankfully others on GSC have a completely different skill set, and interests, they can help me work out why things are not happening as they should. And btw, in life I get very annoyed when things dont happen as they should, but here I am learning to accept that part of the fun is working out why things are not working, and eventually making things work as they should, with help from you all.
So, digital. I do enjoy making my railway look "authentic". OK we always have to compromise. But I have been amazed at how digital gives me authentic speed control, unimpeded by track issues; how I can run more than one train at a time; how I can double head without any issues, and allow others, especially kids, to join in the operational fun. it has not been cheap, but it is giving me a lot of enjoyment, and I am sure my Dad, who bought me my first Hornby Dublo set, approves. But most of all, I am so glad this forum exists because where I live there is no club scene.
So digital has revealed a whole new dimension of the hobby to me. But there are many other dimensions that I simply cannot explore, because I don't have the skills or the motivation. Well, what a great hobby, that brings together such diverse skills and interests...
 

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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
634
110
Exeter, Devon, UK
Re my post 153:
To be able to continue with programming, an address is required, once this is entered, then the options of moving and changing come into effect.
Think that makes sense!, when you do it as often as I do, it becomes second nature, it's the trying to explain it, that it tends to come out garbled!!!
101514_0035dbe245699dc96335b5554735dcca.png
 
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Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
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Pennsylvania, USA
Well my apologies if my bit of humor has upset anyone.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Re my post 153:
To be able to continue with programming, an address is required, once this is entered, then the options of moving and changing come into effect.
Think that makes sense!, when you do it as often as I do, it becomes second nature, it's the trying to explain it, that it tends to come out garbled!!!
View attachment 241202
Thanks for that. I followed that..however I now cannot work out how to save the changes I have made (see photo) Should I press M1, M2 or M3? I have assumed M3, which gets me out of that page, however when I go back to check, my changes have not been saved. I often get this kind of problem with my Navi. It and I have different ideas of the meaning of the word "intuitive".

Also would you or anyone have the time and patience to walk me step by step through how I would read the CV values (29 and 49 is of interest to muns muns ).

I thank you all :)
 

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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
634
110
Exeter, Devon, UK
From the top:
Check the Central Station, that you are using the connection for the Programming Track...……...

From the Navigator:
Menu
M3
M1
Decoder Prog:
M2
M1
CV Read+Prog:
M2
CV-NR.: type in 29
M2
M1 (CV►)
A value will appear, make a note of it...….

From same screen,
M2
CV-NR.: type in 49
M2
M1 (CV►)
A value will appear, make a note of it...….

Repeat as above:
M2
CV-NR.: type in 8
M2
M1 (CV►)
A value will appear, make a note of it...….


Repeat:
M2
CV-NR.: type in 255
M2
M1 (CV►)
A value will appear, make a note of it...….

CV 29 =
CV 49 =
CV 8 =
CV 255 =


Do you have a PC programmer and Massoth Service Tool 3.2?

I created two separate Decoder Templates that show the differences between an LGB 55021 (either with a LGB ID of 159 or a Massoth ID of 123), and a kosher Massoth L Decoder.

The graphical nature shows the differences, and as PhilP posted earlier, they both share common CV's but use different values, hence entering the wrong value can "screw" the decoder up!

101604_7306fa5f8628a8af82e7330d6545a357.png


101610_f1d51f22d3262846a330d3362c1fb8fb.png
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,639
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Thanks for that. I followed that..however I now cannot work out how to save the changes I have made (see photo) Should I press M1, M2 or M3? I have assumed M3, which gets me out of that page, however when I go back to check, my changes have not been saved. I often get this kind of problem with my Navi. It and I have different ideas of the meaning of the word "intuitive".

Also would you or anyone have the time and patience to walk me step by step through how I would read the CV values (29 and 49 is of interest to muns muns ).

I thank you all :)
I think that the problem that we all had with the Navi when starting out is the Changeable Menu Options that M1-3 have when you have done something. I finally got the lightbulb moment with it and can only say go slow and watch the screen, particularly what shows on the screen after you have done a change. OK is what you are looking for a Menu to have changed to! Plus pressing the right M1-3 to make that change happen.