How would you advise someone converting to digital?

R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Help! I have regressed, in respect of configuring locos. I got the first consignment of my smuggled purchase from Norway (which I started a thread about), and tried to configure two of the locos this morning. But I withdrew baffled after an hour. Hopefully I can explain the steps I took, with the photos, and I would be delighted if you guys can work out where I'm going wrong.

Firstly background (may anticipate some questions)

- in the lack of anything coherent from Massoth I follow RedRoc's excellent instructions (#101)
- however it seems both my Central and Navigators may be newer than what RedRoc refers to; e.g. there is no cable connection possible to my Navigators ( no "control bus" ports, see photo)
- in the summer I successfully programmed a couple of my own locos
- the programming track is deffo live, becaus a couple of times I got the "slight buck" from the loco, indicating successful installation of the code in the decoder (per RedRoc)
- but I still have not succeeded.
- maybe worth mentioning that the locos I am now trying to programme are second hand so the owner has previously programmed them.

In the next post I will try to describe accurately step by step what happens...
 

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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
So I follow RdRoc's process , and just tried it again:


Main menu - decoder programme

M2 to Address. I enter 9 in this case

M2 to go through 28 speed steps, and direction singl right arrow

M2 to Analog/Dig, use M1 to select D

Press and hold M2, a tick appears beside the address (as per photo)

then I am not sure what I should do next, should I press M2 again to confirm, or M3 to get to driving screen?

If I press M2, it takes me back to the beginning, see photo,…so I do it again, and this time, when i get the tick, I press M3

And what shows up (see photo) is a loco with address 5 and not 9. On the track, the original loco with address 5, is still active. The new loco I am trying to programme, dead as a dodo. So how come it went to address 5, and not 9?

I am missing something simple here, aren’t I??

Hope you can work out what I am doing, at last. Many thanks in advance for help!
 

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John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
634
110
Exeter, Devon, UK
Have you followed the rest of the instructions from Post 101 under the heading Programming -Loco Configuration(Speedsteps, Icon & Name)?
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Have you followed the rest of the instructions from Post 101 under the heading Programming -Loco Configuration(Speedsteps, Icon & Name)?
Well, what you see in the window of the Navi in the third photo, I did not need to change, because it was already correct, the loco is a V52 diesel. I filled in those steps in my previous attempt at configuring the V52, so there was nothing to change. But I don't understand why I see there the loco address 5. That is for a Stainz, so I seem to have somehow changed the cosmetic configurations (Icon and Name) of my Stainz, and not at all set up a new loco.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
As an aside, I am just wondering...when you guys take your digital locos to a friend's or a club, how do you get them configured to run there? Does that also need a programming track and the same process as i am trying to master here, or do you just put them on the main track and assign them a vacant number on the Navi or whatever?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,957
335
Tamworth, Staffs.
As an aside, I am just wondering...when you guys take your digital locos to a friend's or a club, how do you get them configured to run there? Does that also need a programming track and the same process as i am trying to master here, or do you just put them on the main track and assign them a vacant number on the Navi or whatever?
Normally...........
You stick it on the track.. If it starts moving, then 'someone else' probably has a loco set to the same address! ;):devil:
you can, of course, ask if anybody is using address 'nnnn', but where is the fun in that? :giggle:

If two loco's have the same address, then either only one is 'on track' at a time, or one of the owners changes the address of their loco.

If you take your Navigator, then you do need to make sure the Navigator is assigned a different 'id' to any others.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Normally...........
You stick it on the track.. If it starts moving, then 'someone else' probably has a loco set to the same address! ;):devil:
you can, of course, ask if anybody is using address 'nnnn', but where is the fun in that? :giggle:

If two loco's have the same address, then either only one is 'on track' at a time, or one of the owners changes the address of their loco.

If you take your Navigator, then you do need to make sure the Navigator is assigned a different 'id' to any others.
Right, so if I knew which address the Saxon Mallett I have acquired was given by the previous owner, it should work on that address, right? But that said, any digital loco that I stick on the track should at least have sound (unless sound switched off in the cab), right? The Mallett didn't make any sound when placed on my main track. However when I placed it on the analogue test circle last night, I got sound, once I had turned my 1amp start set controller up to notch 3. It would not start moving though; I wonder whether (hope that) it is because its such a big beast that the controller doesnt have enough to power it.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,957
335
Tamworth, Staffs.
Right, so if I knew which address the Saxon Mallett I have acquired was given by the previous owner, it should work on that address, right?
Correct.. If in doubt, always try address '3', and the 'road number' of the loco..

If sound was turned 'off' it may well not make a noise on a DCC track.. - Many 'do something' when you first plonk them on the track, as the electronics wakes up..

Although the Buhler motor will move at 2-3volts, the electronics in a DCC loco (on analogue) will not wake-up, until 5-6volts. Hence you need to turn up a DCC equipped loco further than a non-DCC equipped loco, on an analogue track.

HTH?
PhilP.
 
Brixham

Brixham

Registered
27 Aug 2010
1,138
2
Conflicts!!!

Not war..but Massoth navi and loco addresses.

At our group meetings, we have a sheet for Masssoth navi id's ( we run radio control ), and for individual locos ( loco description, colour, dcc #, and owner )

Avoids most problems, except when the usual suspect plonks a loco on the rails and walks away....

Malcolm
 
muns

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
H
- however it seems both my Central and Navigators may be newer than what RedRoc refers to; e.g. there is no cable connection possible to my Navigators ( no "control bus" ports, see photo)
All Control Bus ports are on the front of the 1210Z! Only older 1210Zs, 800Zs & 1200Zs had them on the back too.

In any case, you can still use the programming functions with a wireless Navigator.
 
muns

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
So I follow RdRoc's process , and just tried it again:


Main menu - decoder programme

M2 to Address. I enter 9 in this case

M2 to go through 28 speed steps, and direction singl right arrow

M2 to Analog/Dig, use M1 to select D

Press and hold M2, a tick appears beside the address (as per photo)

then I am not sure what I should do next, should I press M2 again to confirm, or M3 to get to driving screen?

If I press M2, it takes me back to the beginning, see photo,…so I do it again, and this time, when i get the tick, I press M3

And what shows up (see photo) is a loco with address 5 and not 9. On the track, the original loco with address 5, is still active. The new loco I am trying to programme, dead as a dodo. So how come it went to address 5, and not 9?

I am missing something simple here, aren’t I??

Hope you can work out what I am doing, at last. Many thanks in advance for help!
From what you say above, you have programmed the decoder to respond to loco #9. The Navigator still knows about Loco #5 and not #9.

You will need to set up a new loco in the Navigator for address #9. I cant recall if you can ALTER an address in the Navigator Loco roster, You should be able to DELETE a loco (#5) from the roster...Select loco #5, Hold M2 for 3 seconds then you should see a Loco with a X above M1, Hold M1 until the screed reverts.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Correct.. If in doubt, always try address '3', and the 'road number' of the loco..

If sound was turned 'off' it may well not make a noise on a DCC track.. - Many 'do something' when you first plonk them on the track, as the electronics wakes up..

Although the Buhler motor will move at 2-3volts, the electronics in a DCC loco (on analogue) will not wake-up, until 5-6volts. Hence you need to turn up a DCC equipped loco further than a non-DCC equipped loco, on an analogue track.

HTH?
PhilP.
It does, thanks but it looks like I have a problem with this loco which is above my pay grade. The control switch in the cab is set to 3 so there should be sound. There is sound when I place it on the analogue track; and the reason the loco doesn't move is probably because the power pack is only 1 amp, which the loco manual says isn't sufficient. However I'v taken it out to the main track and it is completely dead. Neither address 3 no address 7, the road number of the loco, worked. But anyway, all my other locos emit sound as soon as I put them on the track, so I guess I have a problem with this particular loco which is separate to my failure to programme it...
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,957
335
Tamworth, Staffs.
Maybe..
Some 'do nothing' until the correct address is entered on the system.

Many after-market DCC installations bypass the cab-switch.
If it is a new Marklin/LGB offering, there are reports sound is turned off on analogue.

If you put the loco on your programming track, you should be able to read CV1 (the short loco address) or even use your navigator to interrogate the decoder for its' address??

Else, as you say, it would appear there is a problem with it.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Maybe..
Some 'do nothing' until the correct address is entered on the system.

Many after-market DCC installations bypass the cab-switch.
If it is a new Marklin/LGB offering, there are reports sound is turned off on analogue.

If you put the loco on your programming track, you should be able to read CV1 (the short loco address) or even use your navigator to interrogate the decoder for its' address??

Else, as you say, it would appear there is a problem with it.
It's a pre -Marklin model (21832). I'm not yet at a stage where I could do those things you suggest there (I am the bloke who didn't notice the Control Bus was on the front of his Central Station :) ) . Fortunately there's a guy working with one of the model shops who does repairs and is very cheap, better to go to him, I think, especially as I've got two others from this "treasure trove" that need his attention.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,957
335
Tamworth, Staffs.
It's a pre -Marklin model (21832). I'm not yet at a stage where I could do those things you suggest there (I am the bloke who didn't notice the Control Bus was on the front of his Central Station :) ) . Fortunately there's a guy working with one of the model shops who does repairs and is very cheap, better to go to him, I think, especially as I've got two others from this "treasure trove" that need his attention.
Especially if he has a Massoth system..

Might be worth asking if you can look over his shoulder, while he finds the address?? :think:
 
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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Especially if he has a Massoth system..

Might be worth asking if you can look over his shoulder, while he finds the address?? :think:
Yes, that has occurred to me. Not to mention walking me through the programming process...
 
stockers

stockers

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24 Oct 2009
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So I follow RdRoc's process , and just tried it again:


Main menu - decoder programme

M2 to Address. I enter 9 in this case

M2 to go through 28 speed steps, and direction singl right arrow

M2 to Analog/Dig, use M1 to select D

Press and hold M2, a tick appears beside the address (as per photo)

then I am not sure what I should do next, should I press M2 again to confirm, or M3 to get to driving screen?

If I press M2, it takes me back to the beginning, see photo,…so I do it again, and this time, when i get the tick, I press M3

And what shows up (see photo) is a loco with address 5 and not 9. On the track, the original loco with address 5, is still active. The new loco I am trying to programme, dead as a dodo. So how come it went to address 5, and not 9?

I am missing something simple here, aren’t I??

Hope you can work out what I am doing, at last. Many thanks in advance for help!
After using M1 to select D, you press M1 to start the decoder programming. Think you pressed M2 which only saves to the Navvy, not the decoder.
 
stockers

stockers

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
Staff member
GSC Moderator
24 Oct 2009
25,432
78
61
Nr. Ashford, Kent. England.
See section 3.5.5 on page 19 of the current instructions - 'Saving the configuration to the decoder'.
 
Last edited:
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
After using M1 to select D, you press M1 to start the decoder programming. Think you pressed M2 which only saves to the Navvy, not the decoder.
Aha, thanks. Will try that asap.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
291
5
Prague
Morning all. I am out of hibernation and happily it seems to have refreshed my ability to understand the Massoth programming system, and the locos I acquired in the autumn are merrily running around on freight duties. (although i still need to try again with "Raimund" above, thanks to all for the advice there)

So my question today is relatively simple. I now have two diesels, the V52 (23510) and the Pressnitzbahn (28515) which shares the same bodywork as the V52 but has two motors. Both have LGB factory fitted decoders but no sound. How would you recommend to install sound in these two, in a Massoth- dominated system? E-motion S decoder?