How would you advise someone converting to digital?

idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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Yes, Massoth e-motion S decoder would work, it would probably be connected to the track power outlets on the LGB boards. There's a trick to programming them once installed, to isolate the power, as they share some of the same CVs as the LGB fitted decoders. You would need a speaker as well, and a volume control if you want to control the volume manually as well as with CV settings The speakers and volume control from Massoth come with the plugs attached to plug into the S decoder board.

If you're happy with generic motor sound, you could try the LGB diesel sound module 65006 which has a speaker and volume control included. The sound functionality is more of less the same as the S decoder. Again no soldering required.

HTH
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,810
201
North Essex
Morning all. I am out of hibernation and happily it seems to have refreshed my ability to understand the Massoth programming system, and the locos I acquired in the autumn are merrily running around on freight duties. (although i still need to try again with "Raimund" above, thanks to all for the advice there)

So my question today is relatively simple. I now have two diesels, the V52 (23510) and the Pressnitzbahn (28515) which shares the same bodywork as the V52 but has two motors. Both have LGB factory fitted decoders but no sound. How would you recommend to install sound in these two, in a Massoth- dominated system? E-motion S decoder?

Completely agree with Dave's answer above - a Massoth S would be the best way to go in my opinion. The LGB "black box" sound unit he also mentioned will fit and is very simple to connect, but it is more expensive than the S decoder, and doesn't have the specific sounds for the actual loco in question, just generic diesel sounds.
Using an S, you can fit a nice chunky speaker with a big magnet (I'd suggest a Visaton FRS5 or FRS7) that will give you great sound.

One thing in your post that I'm a bit confused about - it implies that your V52 only has one motor? Both the locos you mention should have two motors, with both bogies powered - if your V52 has one bogie without a motor then it's been removed somewhere in its life...!

Jon.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
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Thanks both. It's probably my mistake re the V52 and its motor(s), as it came without a box, and I looked it up in the German language reference book I bought last year (discussed in the releavnt thread). I think that it didn't mention two motors on the V52, but I've just looked up the instruction manual and it is referenced there. I'll check when I get home, but now I think of it, I am pretty sure it has pick ups on both bogies. You can see I haven't got to know either of them well yet :)
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
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Hi guys, just revisiting the choice of sound module for V52, the guys who install this for me seem to be pushing me towards the LGB module, but as you say it is about €75 more than the Massoth S, and I have two of these locos to equip. That said, I need to factor in the loudspeaker cost with the Massoth but not with the LGB pack. The guy who does the work at the shop is a general modeller (not a G specialist) and he may not be so confident with the more complicated Massoth fit, maybe. Anyway the main advantage of the Massoth is, if I understand well, a more tailored sound?
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,810
201
North Essex
Hi guys, just revisiting the choice of sound module for V52, the guys who install this for me seem to be pushing me towards the LGB module, but as you say it is about €75 more than the Massoth S, and I have two of these locos to equip. That said, I need to factor in the loudspeaker cost with the Massoth but not with the LGB pack. The guy who does the work at the shop is a general modeller (not a G specialist) and he may not be so confident with the more complicated Massoth fit, maybe. Anyway the main advantage of the Massoth is, if I understand well, a more tailored sound?

Yes, with the Massoth you will be able to get the correct sound files for that loco, but with the LGB "black box" the best you will get is a generic set of diesel sounds. Fitting a Massoth S is really simple - just two wires (brown and white) to connect to track power - if your loco already has an LGB MTS decoder in it then there will be two track-power connection pins around the middle of the loco main board that the wires from the S will simply plug on to. Then you just need to screw the speaker in place and plug the cable from it into the S module, and that's about it!

Jon.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
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So, picking up on the above, I now have both diesels growling happily around with their Massoth S sound modules. As mentioned, installing this stuff is way above my pay grade but fortunately the guy connected to the shop charges the equivalent of £6.50 per loco for his time. He had left for me the installation manual and also this sound sheet, and it is this that I am curious about, in realtion to what happens on my Navi. That column on the left headed "F-Key". Does that relate to the numbers on my Navi keyboard? I am trying to match what i see there to what I have. My locos are responding as follows to the Navi buttons:

1 - Horn (which is more like a whistle, but I am sure it's prototypical :) )
2.- Bell
3.- Announcement (departing now) (Schwabian?)
4 - Announcement (departing soon) (Rugen? It is not a dialect, sounds like proper German to me, unlike on my Rugen 0-8-0)
5. -Slow engine power down/startup
6 - sound off
7. - nothing (what is "FA1" on that sound list, please?
8 - nothing (but have not checked if it is shunting speed)
9- Lights

On that sound list there are several functions which are assigned a number above 9. So here is my killer dummy question for today....

How, on my Navi do i activate a two digit number from that keyboard?????
 

Attachments

PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Tamworth, Staffs.
You press the function key at the bottom of your Navigator, and the display then shows 10-18..
You will find the numbers are on the keys, in a smaller font.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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FA1 is output from the decoder. It could be smoke generator depending on the loco model, as F7 is usually reserved for this.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,810
201
North Essex
This is one of the cases where Massoth's instruction manuals can be a little bit confusing.... they use the term "F-keys" (Function Keys) to refer to the numeric buttons on the Navi, so - as you already know - to access the horn, for example, you simply press button "1".
BUT, there is also The "actual" FUNCTION KEY, which is the big "F" button, which (as Phil says above) toggles you in to the higher set of numerical functions, so that you can access F9 and above. For example, if you press the oval "F" button once, the display will shift to "F9...F16" - if you then just press the "7" button you'll get function 15, which according to the list for your version is the "coupler" clank sound.

I think the reason you've got two different announcements (presumably in two regional dialects or accents) is because there are Rugen Island and "mainland" versions of the V51/52 loco, so they've presumably given you the option of getting the "correct" sounding announcement for the particular loco you've installed it in!

As Dave says, F7 (number button 7) is usually for smoke - so probably does nothing on your model, but you could add a smoke unit to simulate the diesel exhaust if you ever wanted to; it switches decoder output FA1 on and off, which is normally connnected to the smoke unit if one is fitted.

Jon.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
Excellent. thanks all, will try these when I get back home. As I expected, I feel a little foolish now re the functions above 9, but honestly for me as a newcomer, Massoth's approach to "user experience" and their explanation of it is almost comically bad. But of course I get that most of you have mastered the basics and the rest becomes a matter of exploration, and part of the fun. I'd be really pleased though if someone posts the process of getting into and changing CV's from first step, because Massoth certainly don't do it. They seem to assume every customer already has some knowledge.

Just as an aside, re the announcements, the Rugen announcment on my 0-8-0 really is something else, a proper dialect, but as I just remembered, that is an LGB not a Massoth sound module at work there. And I only know what the LGB one is saying because they reproduce the text in the manual. It really isn't German as most of us know it. On the Massoth though, it's German which i can easily understand.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,810
201
North Essex
Happy to try to help - and as has often been said on here, you never need to feel foolish for asking a question - the only stupid question is the one that you DON'T ask! :)

I'm a big fan of Massoth's hardware, but their manuals are often VERY hard to understand.... maybe it's just the English translations, and the German is better - or maybe not.... ;)

Jon.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,040
691
Tamworth, Staffs.
I'd be really pleased though if someone posts the process of getting into and changing CV's from first step, because Massoth certainly don't do it. They seem to assume every customer already has some knowledge.
The problem there, is which version of software you have in your Navigator? - Hint: It tells you on the screen, as you power the unit up.

A new Navigator should not be a problem, but if it was second-hand, then it might have an earlier version of software, and the key-presses and display will be different.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
The problem there, is which version of software you have in your Navigator? - Hint: It tells you on the screen, as you power the unit up.

A new Navigator should not be a problem, but if it was second-hand, then it might have an earlier version of software, and the key-presses and display will be different.
It says V2.01. I only bought them, new, last year, so I certainly hope that is the latest version.

Anyway, tested all the new functions on my V52, all working pretty much as per that list. I also have two Stainz with Massoth sound modules so I believe I can get the same list for them from the Massoth website?

Well it looks like I cannot, or if one can, they have hidden them from the great unwashed, but fortunately in this thread Gizzy posted a link to an external site which has them, albeit I don't know how up-to-date they are, as the thread is from 2011.
 
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J

John S

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5 Nov 2017
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Navigator is now on version 2.10............update (11/06/19) is for the new 2.4GHz wireless protocol.

Stainz with Massoth LS sound modules.....

129672_e35db2da28d0814ac30a51ff77310cb5.png
 
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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
Right so with all your help I have made very good progress, and nearly all my loco fleet is correctly programmed with the sounds functioning as they should.

The one exception is my ZB Raimund which people were puzzling over last year on my behalf. It ran, with sound and lights, but only seemed to respond to F1, the whistle. My repair guy told me it has a Massoth E-motion L chip installed.

Today I re-programmed it, and again it runs perfectly in parallel setting. F1 activates whistle, F9 lights, but i could not activate any other sounds which the LGB manual says are available (and certainly some of them can be heard when the loco is stationary). It also smokes nicely - for literally a minute - but regardless of whether I press F7.

However my discovery for today, which i hope may offer a clue, is that F8 works: it gives me shunting speed. Now I know that is a Massoth and not an LGB feature. But according to the LGB manual, 8 should activate a sound, and that function clearly is not now available.

So my question is: it's chipped, and it has a sound module, but how can I access the range of sounds that must be lurking there but are not currently set up to respond to functions?

I've got a feeling i may be asked to enter CV-land in order for people to answer my question so I will now give that a go, but I am not confident of succeeding...
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
UPDATE

I got into CV Read/Write section. But Raimund cannot give me a Value reading for CV29, and an X appears against Bit7..0, whatever that is. Tried it on the second Navi, same result, and then tried the same process on another loco, got a reading Ok for that loco...

So what does that tell you?
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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24 Oct 2009
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N W Leicestershire
However my discovery for today, which i hope may offer a clue, is that F8 works: it gives me shunting speed. Now I know that is a Massoth and not an LGB feature. But according to the LGB manual, 8 should activate a sound, and that function clearly is not now available.

So my question is: it's chipped, and it has a sound module, but how can I access the range of sounds that must be lurking there but are not currently set up to respond to functions?

I've got a feeling i may be asked to enter CV-land in order for people to answer my question so I will now give that a go, but I am not confident of succeeding...
The following may help confirm the nature of your chip.
Read CV 8, if it's a Massoth chip this should read 123.
If so go to
and download the 991084 pdf document.
Then read CV 255 and compare it with that in attachment 4 on page 53 of this document.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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13 Jul 2015
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It suggests the decoder in Raimund is either not installed correctly or is defective. Can you read CV1?
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
Neil Robinson Neil Robinson , idlemarvel idlemarvel thanks for your help

I cannot get anything from CV8. However from CV1 I get Value 001, and Bit 7..0: 00000001
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,040
691
Tamworth, Staffs.
If it is setup for 'LGB commands'. - Some from the factory settings can be:
F6 for sound off/on
F5 for 'side noises' - coal shovelling etc. when stationary.

If you press function key one, twice, with a slight delay between the two presses, do you get the bell? - This would suggest the sound part of the installation is set for serial.