How would you advise someone converting to digital?

muns

muns

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Staff member
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You say there it has an eMotion L driving decoder, do you know what sound module it has and how it is connected? If the sound module (say an eMotion S) connects directly to the track then there may be a fight in responding to CV reads from both decoders.

If it is a LGB factory sound (not sure if these ever had any) could the whistle and sounds be triggered with a FA1 signal (the A1 output of the decoder goes to the sound board and the sound board plays specific sounds based upon the number of changes in the output). Try triggering FA1 several times in succession quite quickly. You may need to set the Fast Serial Pulse Chain option in the configuration of the L decoder if this is the case.
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
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Exeter, Devon, UK
However my discovery for today, which i hope may offer a clue, is that F8 works: it gives me shunting speed. Now I know that is a Massoth and not an LGB feature. But according to the LGB manual, 8 should activate a sound, and that function clearly is not now available.
Sorry to burst your theory!.. LGB 55027 3A Loco decoder, Switching Speed Function F8

Will any of the following shed any light and help............

The ZB Raimund has a direct decoder interface, which one of the following can be fitted, LGB 55020/55021 or a Massoth L Decoder.

Bell and whistle: The whistle sounds automatically when the locomotive is started.
The bell and whistle can also be triggered using track magnets.
The model features a digital electronic sound system. The volume control is located under the round cover on the left water tank.

The sound can be switched on and off using the power control switch inside the cab.
Position 0: All power off.
Position 1: Power to lights and smoke generator.
Position 2: Power to lights, smoke generator and motor.
Position 3: Power to lights, smoke generator, motor and sound.

With DCC, you can also activate the following with the appropriate Function key.
1: Whistle
2: Bell
3: Smoke generator off/on
4: Sound off/on
5: Conductor announcement: “Sonderzug nach Mayrhofen foahrt gleich ab. Schickt’s Euch, macht die Türen zu.”
(Special train to Mayrhofen is about to leave. Hurry, close the doors.)
6: Brake sound
7: Coal shovelling sound
8: Feed water pump sound

The “squealing” brake sound will be active when the loco slows to a stop.
Standing sounds, become active when the model stops, auxiliary blower, safety valve, coal shovelling and firebox door.

As DCC produces a constant voltage, and as long as a least (approx. 6.5 volts) is maintained the standing sounds will continue to sound at regular intervals while the locomotive is standing.

The model is also equipped with a starting delay circuit. This enables the model to produce standing sounds while it is stopped.

Some sounds cannot operate simultaneously: auxiliary blower, safety valve, coal shovelling, conductor announcement, feed water pump and brake sounds can only operate consecutively.

For example, you cannot trigger the conductor announcement while you hear the standing sounds.

The model also has two DIP switches located on the sound circuit board for additional sound functions: To access the sound circuit board, remove the body of the locomotive after removing six screws: Two at the rear of the locomotive body, four on the chassis.


Switch 1: When switch 1 is set to “OFF”, the conductor announcement does not mention the town of Mayrhofen (“special train” instead of “special train to Mayrhofen”).

Switch 2: The prototype locomotive does not have a bell. When switch 2 is set to “OFF,” the bell will not be triggered by a track magnet. (The bell can still be triggered with DCC)

Changes in the DIP switch settings only take effect after the sound system has shut down.
To shut down the sound system, turn off the power or remove the locomotive from the tracks.
Wait until the sound system turns off. Then set the DIP switches.

Notes: For Massoth, LGB & Lenz Decoders.

Massoth L Decoder
CV 7 =
Versions 1.0 (13/07/05) to 2.9 (01/09/17)
1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5
2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8 & 2.9

CV 7 =
Reset, 55 Basic Setting, 66 Reset Motor Settings, 77 (Use with caution! Sets Function Outputs to Max Track Voltage) Resets lights and functions.

CV 8 = 123 Massoth

CV 49 = 2 (Default, may have to change this to value of 3, for Serial & Parallel Data Transfer, a reference to using the " Serial Mouse" indicates the use of multiple key presses)

CV 59 = 8 (Default, Switching Speed, 8 is also for the Feed water pump sound)

CV 255 = 130 eMOTION L
May report back this as 157 = LGB Onboard Sound

LGB 55021 Decoder
CV 8 = 159 LGB
CV 7 = 2.0 to 2.8
LGB Decoder 55021 Version ME-2.0, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4*, 2.5 up to and including 2.8 parallel data update.
*Unable ascertain exact version number change, according to references, version 2.8 was the first revision with a parallel data update, yet I have a version 2.4 that has a parallel data update. With the parting of LGB & Massoth, references to this info is somewhat confused.
CV 106 = 192 (55021)
CV 167
1 = Steam loco
2 = Diesel loco
3 = Electric loco

LENZ Decoders (LGB 55020)
CV 7 =
LGB Decoder 55020 Versions 2/3 and Version ME-1.1
CV 8 = 99 Lenz Elektronik GmbH
CV 106 = 10 (55020)
 
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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
If it is setup for 'LGB commands'. - Some from the factory settings can be:
F6 for sound off/on
F5 for 'side noises' - coal shovelling etc. when stationary.

If you press function key one, twice, with a slight delay between the two presses, do you get the bell? - This would suggest the sound part of the installation is set for serial.
Nope , none of those three actions work in that way
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
You say there it has an eMotion L driving decoder, do you know what sound module it has and how it is connected? If the sound module (say an eMotion S) connects directly to the track then there may be a fight in responding to CV reads from both decoders.

If it is a LGB factory sound (not sure if these ever had any) could the whistle and sounds be triggered with a FA1 signal (the A1 output of the decoder goes to the sound board and the sound board plays specific sounds based upon the number of changes in the output). Try triggering FA1 several times in succession quite quickly. You may need to set the Fast Serial Pulse Chain option in the configuration of the L decoder if this is the case.
muns muns , John S John S , again thanks for suggestions. Might be worth just summarising the history of this loco. It's from the ZB Sammler edition and I bought the whole set on eBay. The previous owner clearly invested in it as the coaches came with lighting and good quality figures, and all was in top condition. The guy who does all the stuff I can't do, such as fitting chips, took a look and identified the fitted Massoth decoder. Unfortunately he didnt specify (maybe because I didnt ask) what sound module it was attached to. This model definitely has factory sound, here is the shot from the instruction leaflet that comes with the boxed set. If you look there it shows what should happen on Fkey 8, whereas what is actually happening is the half speed shunt, and that is the only key from 2-8 inclusive that activates anything. So somebody has altered something. However..I have a standard ZB no 2 which now has Massoth chip and sound and so I've just run it ahead of No 1 to compare sound. While the whistle is exactly the same, the main driving sound is completely different, the Massoth equipped loco has a much faster rhythm of chuffs and the chuffs are less emphatic than on no 1. So I guess that tells me that the sound module No 1 is activating is not Massoth, and likely is the original LGB?

Well I know by now you are all saying, "Just open her up and tell us what the sound module is!!!" , but I don't dare take that on, especially when my repair guy charges so little (£6.50 to install a chip and sound module), so unless there is anything else I can now follow up "externally" maybe I will leave it until the season ends and let him work out what is happening.
 

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wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
329
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muns muns , John S John S , again thanks for suggestions. Might be worth just summarising the history of this loco. It's from the ZB Sammler edition and I bought the whole set on eBay. The previous owner clearly invested in it as the coaches came with lighting and good quality figures, and all was in top condition. The guy who does all the stuff I can't do, such as fitting chips, took a look and identified the fitted Massoth decoder. Unfortunately he didnt specify (maybe because I didnt ask) what sound module it was attached to. This model definitely has factory sound, here is the shot from the instruction leaflet that comes with the boxed set. If you look there it shows what should happen on Fkey 8, whereas what is actually happening is the half speed shunt, and that is the only key from 2-8 inclusive that activates anything. So somebody has altered something. However..I have a standard ZB no 2 which now has Massoth chip and sound and so I've just run it ahead of No 1 to compare sound. While the whistle is exactly the same, the main driving sound is completely different, the Massoth equipped loco has a much faster rhythm of chuffs and the chuffs are less emphatic than on no 1. So I guess that tells me that the sound module No 1 is activating is not Massoth, and likely is the original LGB?

Well I know by now you are all saying, "Just open her up and tell us what the sound module is!!!" , but I don't dare take that on, especially when my repair guy charges so little (£6.50 to install a chip and sound module), so unless there is anything else I can now follow up "externally" maybe I will leave it until the season ends and let him work out what is happening.
ignore see below.
 
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wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
329
20
....
Just to add i think i have found the answer from something Muns posted way back, see post 25 from 2011.


Going to try it when i get home on a mallet that i have with an identical issue.
 
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R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
Just to add i think i have found the answer from something Muns posted way back, see post 25 from 2011.


Going to try it when i get home on a mallet that i have with an identical issue.
Please let me know how it goes. muns muns did mention that above on this thread too. In my case the simple phrase "To do this set CV49 to value 11." is still terrifying, but I will have to learn. Anyway I am off this weekend on the rails (checking out the Waldviertelbahn) so I'll let you have a crack first before I go and drive myself mad grappling with my Navi.

I wish you all a great weekend.
 
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wandgrudd

wandgrudd

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Worked like a charm ,
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
Worked like a charm ,
And for me! . By Jove, it works, and furthermore I only went and set a CV!!! Many thanks wandgrudd wandgrudd and muns muns !
 
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wandgrudd

wandgrudd

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And for me! . By Jove, it works, and furthermore I only went and set a CV!!! Many thanks wandgrudd wandgrudd and muns muns !
Thanks but all credit to Muns, excellent advice as per the norm!! A+++.
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
So flushed with excitement at finally understanding how to get at and change CVs on a Navi, I have tried (apparently successfully) to change the overall sound level on a Massoth chipped Stainz. I did this by selecting the loco and going to
M1 Decoder prog /M1 Loco Address/M1 CVRead+Prog/M2 CV-Nr; enter 200, M2 again to Value

But here is my question. When i get to that point the Value is always blank. It is now, on checking. Why does it not show the previously set up Value? Anyway i put in the desired sound level, press M2, a tick appears and then M3 back to the driving screen. And I changed the sound level several times, it works. But would you not expect an existing value to come up?. Would that not help users?

( I am convinced there is some secret Massoth Society, complete with a funny handshake, you guys are all in it and I am not! :) _
 
muns

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
After you have entered the CV number you want to change, does the label on the M1 button change to "CV->" ? If it does press it and it should read the value of that CV back from the decoder.
 
wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
329
20
....
So flushed with excitement at finally understanding how to get at and change CVs on a Navi, I have tried (apparently successfully) to change the overall sound level on a Massoth chipped Stainz. I did this by selecting the loco and going to
M1 Decoder prog /M1 Loco Address/M1 CVRead+Prog/M2 CV-Nr; enter 200, M2 again to Value

But here is my question. When i get to that point the Value is always blank. It is now, on checking. Why does it not show the previously set up Value? Anyway i put in the desired sound level, press M2, a tick appears and then M3 back to the driving screen. And I changed the sound level several times, it works. But would you not expect an existing value to come up?. Would that not help users?

( I am convinced there is some secret Massoth Society, complete with a funny handshake, you guys are all in it and I am not! :) _

Bit more info required as i cent remember the details of the whole thread but is it a factory sound Stainz with a Massoth none sound decoder (i.e. L decoder) or a full Massoth sound decoder (i.e. LS decoder) , also assume we are using the full Massoth system not MTSIII with a Massoth handset?
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,793
189
North Essex
...............
( I am convinced there is some secret Massoth Society, complete with a funny handshake, you guys are all in it and I am not! :) _
Damn! Chaps, I think he's on to us..... :D

Seriously, I think many of us just blunder on through with little idea of what we are actually doing, so in that respect I think you're already part of the Secret Society.

Now, who should we elect as our Grand High Todger*...?

Jon.

* A virtual coconut to anyone who remembers where that reference comes from!
 
R

RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
28 Oct 2009
318
13
Prague
After you have entered the CV number you want to change, does the label on the M1 button change to "CV->" ? If it does press it and it should read the value of that CV back from the decoder.
YES! Thank you sir! I do need to start watching that row at the bottom of the screen for such label changes
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Tamworth, Staffs.
Now, who should we elect as our Grand High Todger*...?
Might need our David to investigate that one..

Though you might need to be careful of the Mods. - Don't want to cross any thin blue lines.

<edit>
Think it might have been Chief Todger, though? :think::nerd:
 
muns

muns

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Staff member
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Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,793
189
North Essex
Might need our David to investigate that one..

Though you might need to be careful of the Mods. - Don't want to cross any thin blue lines.

<edit>
Think it might have been Chief Todger, though? :think::nerd:

Good spot, Phil, you win the Virtual Coconut! I was working from memory rather than researching it, so you may very well be right on the name... :D

Without actually going back and viewing the scene in question, I do have a memory of the wonderful Melvyn Hayes (as the aformentioned Todger) imperiously intoning:
"Close the Turkey's legs.... its bottom shall not be kissed tonight!"

They just don't write 'em like that any more. :eek:

Jon.
 
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