How would you advise someone converting to digital?

[Dan]

I use the Zimo system for my DCC and I really like it lot.
Any engine can be upgraded and I presently am doing 2 of the LGB 2020 stainz with split case with pulsing smoke and super caps. I also did my LGB 2063 davenport with regular smoke and standard Kadee couplers tied to a servo for remote uncoupling.
Note that with most digital systems you can run any manufacturer decoder. My MTS I runs a mrc decoder, and my Zimo runs MRC and LGB decoders (55020, 22021, onboards).
And for a small engine in Large scale Zimo has the MX645 programmable full function decoder (sound, lights, motor, servo, susi) for under $100 and is 3 watt audio and 35 volt track voltage!!

 

[stockers]

Because it was what local people were using I bought a second hand PIKO system when I saw one to avoid compatibility issues or any complaints (the Massoth Navigator works fine with the PIKO system).

I totally agree - use what your mates are happy with. it obviously works and support is available.

I still have my MTS 2 and 3 gear because to sell it on would get me peanuts while it provides a back up system in the event of failure.

Good idea - so do I - well the 3 anyway.

.

 

[Alexander0654]

I will open by adding my condolences to the others offered here.


As I am just half a pace in front of your current position I will offer my own experience gained from moving over to the " Dark Side ".


You particularly asked for guidance, as too Pit Falls, I am aware of only 2. These being ( 1 ) Cost and ( 2 ) Availability.


Cost is subjective and dependent on individual circumstances but as an example I purchased this lot on EvilBay Germany last month for 1200 euro ( see attached picture).

Also available, new, as a kit for much the same price, power supply, Digital Central Control and Navigator, all Massoth.


A quick look at eb.de will give you an idea in regards to availability. An internet search ( I limit mine to Germany ) of DCC suppliers produces similar results, not a wide choice and low stock of Massoth components. As has already been said in this thread, LGB & Piko, whilst being lower in cost are much harder to find and offer limiter technologies.


Having said this I chose DCC over Battery ( my other consideration ) because it offers, in my opinion, greater operating opportunities in regards to controllability with the addition of sound and smoke. My research, including this site, directed me toward the solutions offered by Massoth.


I hope this is of some help.


Alex

 

[RH Prague]

Afternoon all. I have made the transition to the dark side, installed last weekend. And now comes the next stage, where I struggle to work out how to work with it all.
Would it be OK, therefore if I ask a series of inane questions as I try to get to grips with it all. We could rename it "idiots guide to digital" or more accurately, "an idiot goes digital".
It's a Massoth system, although some of the chips are LGB.
So first thing is, configuring the locos. I did two last weekend, and they are fine. Analague loco works fine too. However today I've tried to configure 2 more, and obviously made a mistake in both cases. Both have their own numbers assigned in the Navigator. However they don't respond when I choose their respective number. But, if either of them are on the track with my Rugen, which I programmed in last week, the second loco moves too. Can anyone work out what I did wrong, and how should I fix it?
On the central station control panel it currently shows 2 active locos, with both correctly configured locos, plus an analogue loco, on the track.
And, one throttle has all the configured, and attempted configured locos showing, but the second one only shows one loco available. I thought that when a loco is configured, the central station saves the details and transfers the info to the second throttle?
Secondary questions...maximum of two locos controlled on one throttle at the same time?

Thanks in advance!

 

[dunnyrail]

However today I've tried to configure 2 more, and obviously made a mistake in both cases. Both have their own numbers assigned in the Navigator. However they don't respond when I choose their respective number. But, if either of them are on the track with my Rugen, which I programmed in last week, the second loco moves too. Can anyone work out what I did wrong, and how should I fix it?

Assuming that you are using a Navigator to program your locomotives it is very easy to NOT save the configuration permanantly, you clearly managed this ok first time round but made a msitake second day. Configuration in Massoth Speak is adding to the Navigator and getting the correct picture. I am not sure that this will change to Loco Address CV No.1 the Loco Adrress.

Answer.
One of the key things to get inside your head with the Navigator is that the screen options (bottom 3 sections) change as you navigate through the options. So best is to put on the Locomotives one at a time! On the track and read what the number is. Decider Programming is from the Menu option arrow sown to the correct and press OK. When you get to the section on the menu read is the left button of the three. Save is the middle one.

On the central station control panel it currently shows 2 active locos, with both correctly configured locos, plus an analogue loco, on the track.
And, one throttle has all the configured, and attempted configured locos showing, but the second one only shows one loco available. I thought that when a loco is configured, the central station saves the details and transfers the info to the second throttle?

Answer
not sure of this one.

Secondary questions...maximum of two locos controlled on one throttle at the same time?

Answer I have managed more but it can get confusing trying to keep track of more than one loco and change back to another if things start to go wrong.

Hope this helps a little, sure someone will give further help.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Nah!

Start with the 'ABC'....

Then work your way up to the 'XYZ' if you need it!

I can hear 'The Sound of Music......'
Doh, ray, me, far, so
But it doesn't mean anything

....at which point I took up mountain climbing.

 

[RH Prague]

[

Assuming that you are using a Navigator to program your locomotives it is very easy to NOT save the configuration permanantly, you clearly managed this ok first time round but made a msitake second day. Configuration in Massoth Speak is adding to the Navigator and getting the correct picture. I am not sure that this will change to Loco Address CV No.1 the Loco Adrress.

Answer.
One of the key things to get inside your head with the Navigator is that the screen options (bottom 3 sections) change as you navigate through the options. So best is to put on the Locomotives one at a time! On the track and read what the number is. Decider Programming is from the Menu option arrow sown to the correct and press OK. When you get to the section on the menu read is the left button of the three. Save is the middle one.

[/QUOTE]

Well this is all a whole House of Fun; after putting one of the offending locos on the track as you suggested, I didn't really learn anything that took me forward. So I successfully deleted all the "suspicious" configurations. Then I reconfigured the diesel. But it isn't moving. So obviously I am not configuring correctly. So now I am going to delete it and reconfigure, and record every step I take here..right, so loco is on the track and I am following the Massoth manual

para 3; I have entered a Loco number and confirmed with M3. The manual claims "the selected loco may now already be operated with the dial knob". Well, it can't. The diesel stubbornly refuses to move (although it is rumbling happily away stationary, and ran OK when it should not have done, under the Rugen's loco number). Never mind, I go again to chapter 3.5...

use M2, confirm speed steps, confirm with M3
Confirm "Parallel" (BTW what governs the choice of parallel and serial?)
Find and confirm correct picture, enter name.
So now I am at para 3.5.5. I press M1, and a tick appears under the loco picture
3.5.6 "saving the loco config with M2(OK) will store the specs permanently in the Navigator". So I pressed M2 and then the middle secondary button. The diesel still does not move. The other configured loco does. The Central shows 3 active locos, presumably Raimund, plus the analog loco, and then the diesel. Restarted (switch off and on, PC style) Central, and now Navigator.
Still the diesel refuses to budge. Aaaaargh.

Hopefully someone can work out my mistake in configuring. Meanwhile there are weeds to attack

Thank you in advance for your patience and forebearing

 

[KentKeith]

One of the problems reading the Massoth manual is that, in my opinion, Massoth make it sound more complicated than it really is. In some cases many options are offered which are fine if you are a dcc geek but if you just want to set an address, change a CV or load a loco on the system Massoth make it overly complicated. Some of the things that I do I don't understand but you have to do it to get it working.

I try to keep things simple and do things step by step. First of all I presume that you have a dedicated programming track connected to the central station on which locomotives are placed on for all programming activities. The steps I take are as follows:

- Decide is what the loco address is to be (normally the number on the side of the loco) and make a note of this number. I also write this number on the box and on a sticker under the loco.

- Place the loco on the programming track and program the loco address using the MENU option on the handset

- Set up the loco details on the handset and save these to the central station

Once all the above steps are done I can then run trains. I deal with each loco separately. For me this works, others might do it differently, others might run down dcc - as some members on here always do.

 

[stockers]

Keith - you say do each separately - exactly. Get each one working.
It sounds to me as though you have reprogrammed all locos to the same address as your Rugen.

What address is your Rugen on.?

 

[RH Prague]

Well I have deleted the Rugen now, but it was on 003. For sure I allocated different numbers to the others I tried to programme, e.g. the diesel was on 004, yet it moved when it alone was on the track and I selected the Rugen.
However...@KentKeith mentioned something possibly important, namely the programming track. I think my guy who supplied and installed the system for me selected a programme track. He configured "Raimund" which is running happily. I configured the Rugen myself, but maybe I had it by coincidence on the same piece of track. But what is a programming track, typically? In what way would it be isolated from the rest of the track?
I can of course ask my supplier if he allocated a programming track. I would ask him more, but he only speaks Czech and is a man of few written words...

 

[muns]

Ok.

1) It is the norm that decoders are factory programmed to use address 3. If you do not reassign them (by programming either CV1 [short address] or CVs 17 & 18 [Long address]), they will respond to Loco address #3.

2) The programming track is the best place to alter CVs. It should be a separate length of track that is electrically isolated from the main layout. It connects electrically to the "Programming track" outputs on the back of the Dimax unit. Place the loco you wish program onto this piece of track, use the programming features of the Navigator to read and write the CVs you wish to change, then move it back to your main track to test. Note that when programming/reading CV values the loco may rock back and forward so make sure the track is longer than the loco being programmed or use a "rolling road".

3) Just to confuse things, it is possible to program some CVs "on the main", and is known ad "Programming on the Main", however this normally does not let you change the loco address, as that needs to stay constant in order to direct the programming command to the required loco.

 

[PhilP]

It does sound very much like you have had all your loco's on the track, and probably changed them all to the same address..

A 3 or 4 foot length of track, connected to the 'Programming Track' outputs on your Central Station is what you need..

 

[KentKeith]

RH,

I've just been down to the Train Shed at the end of the garden and taken a pic of my Massoth set-up:



You can clearly see the programming track (above the yellow box!!) completely separate from the rest of the track. You can even see the connecting wire dangling from the outputs on the back of the central station connected to the end of the programming track.

The only time that any locos go on the programming track is when they are being programmed.

Hope this helps!!

 

[stockers]

Neat bit of wiring there Keith.

 

[RedRoc]

I agree, a separate programming track is essential. Not least because the track power is limited so should help avoid frying decoders.

Robert

 

[PhilP]

Nice!

 

[dunnyrail]

I agree, a separate programming track is essential. Not least because the track power is limited so should help avoid frying decoders.

Robert

View attachment 236576 View attachment 236577 View attachment 236578

The concept of the drop down track is superb, I have had so many problems with space that I struggle to think of where to put controllers etc. now you have given me the clue!Make drop down shelf on hinges like yours with track and put Controllers etc on existing shelf where loco is! Brilliant. Will need blocks to be higher than bottom paint drawers, but bits of 2x1" will sort that.

 

[dunnyrail]

RH,

I've just been down to the Train Shed at the end of the garden and taken a pic of my Massoth set-up:

View attachment 236551

You can clearly see the programming track (above the yellow box!!) completely separate from the rest of the track. You can even see the connecting wire dangling from the outputs on the back of the central station connected to the end of the programming track.

The only time that any locos go on the programming track is when they are being programmed.

Hope this helps!!

My Shed Prog Track is a piece of track at the end of a siding that is switchable between Prog or Main Layout. But a health warning make sure that if a loco is driven onto the prog track it is set to main track (then switch the length to prog and back to main when finished) as that can be a way to trash the prog ability of some DCC setups.

 

[RH Prague]

Duh! I think it is all coming back to me now. We got a piece of spare straight track to configure Raimund. And now I have worked out why there are wires connected to the Central and hanging loose. I now see that they are connected to the points dedicated to "programming track". he has obviously left them there for me (though he expects to return with my other locos in which he is installing Massoth chips - Massoth took ages to deliver them). Right, so I have the day off, and can try to use the programming track.

(Edit): SUCCESS! Diesel configured on the programming track. Now for the others.

Thanks all for getting me past first base!

There will be more questions....

 

[KentKeith]

My Shed Prog Track is a piece of track at the end of a siding that is switchable between Prog or Main Layout. But a health warning make sure that if a loco is driven onto the prog track it is set to main track (then switch the length to prog and back to main when finished) as that can be a way to trash the prog ability of some DCC setups.

Jon,

As I mentioned in my earlier post I keep things simple. As far as I'm concerned doing what you have done is not keeping things simple for exactly the reason you mention - you can forget to reset the switch. Suggesting things such as this only confuses things.