How would you advise someone converting to digital?

[Neil Robinson]

Is it true that digital is more tolerant of dirty track than analogue? The height makes most of it easy to keep clean, but in the last year there has been a stretch of straight track where the trains slow up, and I think it is because it is dirt sensitive.

Yes, with full volts on the track at all speeds performance may be improved, especially when running slowly. IMHO however it is good practice to keep the track reasonably clean.
Your present slowing down may well be due to deterioration of electrical contact at rail joints, especially if it happens some distance from the power feed(s).

 

[pugwash]

Neil is right, there isn't usually a slow point on an analogue track, try putting in a pair of temporary* track power feeds to see if this improves matters.
* lasts up until 10 years

 

[Tim Brien]

Coincidentally, I also found myself in the same situation when my sole surviving parent, my mother, passed away several years ago. I was aware that a small inheritance would be coming my way and decided to convert a dozen or so LGB locomotives to digital sound.

while awaiting probate to clear I set about modifying the locomotives to readily accept decoders as many were older three wire drive blocks. With around a dozen or more locomotives modified for four wire digital operation, money entered my bank account so I set about purchasing a dozen Massoth sound decoders. I enquired of several Massoth dealers in the States as at the time the decoders available locally were $425.00 each. The U.S. dealers were either too busy to supply a dozen sound decoders, or disinterested or wanted to exploit postage costs. How many dealers get an order for a dozen Massoth XLS sound decoders?

The whole business wore me down and my interest in going digital waned due the apathy of every dealer that I enquired. My advice is make sure you really want to go digital in the first instance. If you have been happy with analogue for nine years then do you really want to convert? I had previously modified several locomotives to digital sound plus manufacturer sound LGB locomotives that I had purchased and can attest that sound is fine for a few minutes but after that it can be very annoying. With four or so sound locomotives operating at the same time, the utter joy realised by muting the sound is one of complete relaxation. Also I found that operating several locomotives simultaneously did not give me any satisfaction as I was constantly adjusting speed to stop collisions.

My advice is to stick with analogue. I have had both analogue and digital and yet find myself always reverting to analogue operation. It is nice on digital to stop a locomotive anywhere and have it stationary irrespective of track voltage, however, the inconvenience of having to isolate a loco on analogue was not sufficient justification for me to embrace digital wholeheartedly.

 

[playmofire]

Tim makes a good point about the sound. With my analogue setup I fitted a box van out with mylocosound. No complaints about the quality of the sound, but after running for any length of time, even with the volume turned down, it was bliss to turn the sound off. I rarely use it now and don't miss it.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

the digital vs analog argument often has things thrown around that really aren't the most important points. (often just something that is supposed to be a "killer point" all by itself).

certainly charging is an aspect, you can't leave it just at charging or no charging. if you have one loco and don't run for hours and hours and don't run smoke, battery power is great and it will save money, if you buy aluminum track and use the stock joiners.

On the other hand, if you are like me that runs a lot of locos, and usually 3 locos pulling a train, and run for a long time and heavy trains and run smoke, then having a whole bunch of battery chargers and the higher cost of battery control vs track power, then it's far more economical to run DCC track power. (yes battery equipped locos cost a lot more than track powered DCC)

So, this example points out that you really need to "frame" the use case first. When you list your criteria like number of locos, run time, length of trains, number of locos running at same time, etc. you will find the answers become more obvious.

Many of the traditional "arguments" can be dealt with by just amassing what you want to do BEFORE you try to make basic decisions.

Also, knowing what you want to operate your sounds will help. If you don't need to remotely control bell and whistle, heck go analog track power, forget r/c anything.

Greg

 

[chris m01]

I've never gone dcc. I find battery powered RC is great for smaller locos and track power analogue is fine for my big diesels.
I don't see battery RC as being an expensive option. I use RC Trains equipment (this company is run by one of our members) which costs £72 for a transmitter that will work up to 12 locos and £40 for each receiver which is also an ESC. This means that to change a loco to radio control the cost is £40 for an RC plus 10 AA or AAA rechargeable batteries which cost about £25. For steam locos I use the mylocosound chip which costs £49 and I think sounds good. This works with both analogue and battery power but maybe not dcc. Must say I would not buy the diesel version. The receiver can be linked up with the whistle on the sound card to give radio control on the whistle. For me this makes a nice set up at a very reasonable cost.

Here are two of mine, both running off one transmitter. I was controlling both trains and filming at the same time!. I get hours of use off each charge so charging isn't a problem. If anything it is a good excuse for having more locos!

 

[KentKeith]

My motto all the time is KISS - keep it simple. I started with an LGB Starter DCC kit way back in 2003 and then migrated to a Massoth and finally added a Massoth Booster as the layout continued to grow.

I liked sound from the beginning but I always have the sound level set so that I can only hear the locos when they are close to me. To have a number of trains running round the garden and only hearing each one as they approach, pass you and disappear is as prototypical as you can get. I've managed three trains when on my own (it takes some time to balance the speeds) but when friends have been here we've had six trains running.

Keeping the track clean is no real problem. Send out the LGB Track Cleaning Loco for a couple of circuits and then run trains as frequently as you can.

As the layout grew there extra track feeds were laid and Massoth Track Clamps were installed to ensure that power reached all parts of the track. Only real problem now is that short wheel-based locos sometimes stutter going over LGB R5 points now being rectified by wiring up some coaches/wagons to provide extra power pick-ups.

I do, however, have a couple of battery-powered locos which I can run during the winter months but they very rarely get used.

Don't want to enter into arguments about which system is best. What's best is what's best for you. Each system is different, everybody is different. If everybody/everything was the same the world would be a boring place.

Keith

 

[Rhinochugger]

Mmmm so far we seem to have spent a lot of time telling RHP what not to do, but the real question was, what DCC is recommended?

There's a good few DCC operators on the forum, should the thread be moved into the DCC section to wake them up?

 

[stockers]

I was just wondering that one myself Mike. So we just moved.
Valid point regarding recommendations. we are almost too PC and don't want to argue the toss.
Lets keep it clean but get a bit direct -

 

[stockers]

XYZ IS BETTER THAN EVERYTHING ELSE BECAUSE IT JUST IS.

 

[stockers]

But back to reality. I still say use what your mates do - or at least something that is proven to be compatible.
However, if you live too far from your running colleagues, or just dont like them, here goes.

My quick history.
Started with a basic controller but very quickly moved to the old Crest 'Train Engineer'. Still analogue but with wire free remote control. I say this in a digital thread because the radio bit I realised was important to me.
I added a points controller to this - also linked to the wire-free controller.

Then I had my epiphany, as noted above, the sound of my fitted 2-10-2 on a mates larger layout.

I got hold of a second hand LGB3 set up with the Massoth navigator. I added the radio bit to this almost immediately (Its what credit cards are for!) This set up came with a fitted loco and a points decoder.
Three of my existing locos also had factory chips prefitted - so I was away.

I slowly, over the next 2 or 3 years fitted Massoth LS and XLS sound decoders to the others. Since then, I factor in a sound decoder with every purchase - usually factory or dealer fitted.

I found the 5 amps was sufficient for all my usual running requirements but with friends around we were pushing it.
I got the points decoder up and running on all my most significant points (I ran 2 point motors off of one output for loops or cross-overs with no problem) and then set about route planning - This is a neat little trick with most DCC set ups, you pre program your most common routes into the hand set and then just select the route you want and all the points change in sequence. It looks great. Its a bit fiddly setting up but that is half the fun of it.

When I was feeling in a slighty more wealthy mode (doesn't happen often) I upgraded to the Massoth 1210 with 12 amps available (but mine is usually set at 7 - it trips more quickly if there is a problem and is easy to change to 12 if we need the power).

I have also added the Massoth computer link so that I can easily see the settings on decoders and play around with them. One of the really satisfying things I did whilst playing around with CVs was to balance the speed steps to brake squeal so that it comes in automatically as you slow down a loco. Also most decoders have a cruise setting when on low load so that it is not chuffing like its going uphill all the time. Again, this can take a bit of balancing. I find this another absorbing part of the hobby but maybe its not to every ones taste.

Why did I buy LGB and Massoth. Most of my locos were LGB and it's what my mates used, also there is a wealth of advice on here because quite a few members here use it also. The Navigator handset is excellent in my humble opinion and I would be bothered about dropping my phone!

 

[playmofire]

XYZ IS BETTER THAN EVERYTHING ELSE BECAUSE IT JUST IS.

Ah, maybe, but ABC came first.

 

[KentKeith]

Mmmm so far we seem to have spent a lot of time telling RHP what not to do, but the real question was, what DCC is recommended?

There's a good few DCC operators on the forum, should the thread be moved into the DCC section to wake them up?

Surely my email makes it clear it that I'm recommending the LGB MTS or the Massoth system. So, to make it clear I'll put it in as few words as possible:

- If you do not expect to have more than 23 dcc-fitted locomotives go for the LGB MTS

- If you expect to have more than 23 dcc-fitted locomotives go for the Massoth system

 

[PhilP]

Ah, maybe, but ABC came first.

Nah!

Start with the 'ABC'....

Then work your way up to the 'XYZ' if you need it!

 

[MTheStrong]

I began my entry into the world of digital after many years of running analogue. With frequent house moves, my garden railway was always a temporary affair until a change of job led to a more stable lifestyle. At this time digital was in its infancy and after a visit to a friend's railway in Germany convinced me that digital was the way to go. So I went out and purchased an MTS 2 system and learned to convert a number of Stainz and other LGB locos along the way. As time progressed the loco fleet expanded and the limitations of the MTS 2 became more apparent. In particular I noted that with newer systems you had greater control of locos with 28 or more speed steps and also that I had reached the maximum number of locos that you could address on the MTS 2. I was now at a cross roads to decide which new control system to adopt.

For me the choice of control systems was down to four - Zimo, ECOS, Massoth and Maerklin. At this stage, I should point that I had looked at R/C Battery options, but had rejected them largely due the size of my digital fleet and the time it would take to convert them. All four systems had their advantages and disadvantages, however I chose Maerklin after a detailed demonstration at their factory in Goppingen. For me it was the ease of use and the instant recognition of the MFX chipped locos by the Central Station that tipped the balance.

My current system is a Maerklin CS2 with 5 amp switched power supply and I use a smartphone with the Maerklin App installed to run trains and control points and signals. I have found the current system to have sufficient power to run the number of trains I can physically control at one time. Plans are afoot to upgrade to the CS3 along with a 5 amp booster.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Surely my email makes it clear it that I'm recommending the LGB MTS or the Massoth system. So, to make it clear I'll put it in as few words as possible:

- If you do not expect to have more than 23 dcc-fitted locomotives go for the LGB MTS

- If you expect to have more than 23 dcc-fitted locomotives go for the Massoth system

Sorry Keith, I probably got a bit bogged down in the detail - thanks for the clarity

 

[stockers]

ABCs out of date crap.

 

[stockers]

Surely my email makes it clear it that I'm recommending the LGB MTS or the Massoth system. So, to make it clear I'll put it in as few words as possible:

- If you do not expect to have more than 23 dcc-fitted locomotives go for the LGB MTS

- If you expect to have more than 23 dcc-fitted locomotives go for the Massoth system

You possibly don't think you will ever have more than 23 locos - Ha ha - it creeps up on you.

 

[Zerogee]

You possibly don't think you will ever have more than 23 locos - Ha ha - it creeps up on you.

I lost count at somewhere around 50, a few years back, and I'm not sure that I dare do a recount now.....

Jon.

 

[David1226]

XYZ IS BETTER THAN EVERYTHING ELSE BECAUSE IT JUST IS.

Reminds me of the old Benny Hill sketch, talking in letters in a café, along the lines of...
L O F U N E M N X...... S I F M N X

David