Sound in the Aristo slope back tender

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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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I suppose the real problem is trying to do sound on the cheap - but hey, I'm a cheapskate.

All I really need is a really good throaty chuff sound, I'm not too fussed about fancy bells and whistles.

The Aristo sound card produces something that sounds like Darth Vader wheezing after a hard run, so I was looking for something a bit better.

I've just had some success in upgrading a Bachmann Annie sound card by encapsulating the speaker, and doing the two diode modifications that George Schreyer recommends in his online pages. I therefore thought of trying to get hold of an Annies sound card, and trigger it from the Aristo hall sensor, but then I find that the hall sensor has three wires, and life ain't that seeeemples.

The Bachmann sound card in the Annies is triggered by, what appears to me to be a simple closing of a circuit, which I presumed to be powered by the 9v PP3 battery. To test the chuff, you simply put a paperclip across the two terminals of the tender connector socket - CHUFF >:)>:)>:)>:)

So how would I rig up a simple actuator on the Aristo tender? :think::think::think::think::think:

And remember, I'm a simple builder - brick on brick, me :nod::nod::nod::nod: I understand structures, bending moments and shear, but the internecine descriptions associated with electronics sometimes hurt my head o_O
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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Will the sensor be on the loco or tender? If the latter how do you intend getting about the right number of chuffs per revolution of the drivers.
I've had some success in this respect with some Aristo locos that have drivers near enough twice the diameter of the tender wheels.
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Will the sensor be on the loco or tender? If the latter how do you intend getting about the right number of chuffs per revolution of the drivers.


I've had some success in this respect with some Aristo locos that have drivers near enough twice the diameter of the tender wheels.
The sensor can stay in the tender, Neil.

I've thought about this for a while, and I don't think I'm bovvered. In reality, as the loco is chugging around the garden, there are very few instances when you get down on yer haunches and check sound against vision.

On the original WWSR I had a Buddy L loco where I installed an Aristo 8-coupled brick, and moved the optical sensor into the tender. The lack of synchronisation wasn't obvious, so I've given up worrying. I would love to have that sound card now though - it provided a monstrous chuff, no volume control - oh it had one but it was ineffective, and a bell when you set off in reverse, but hoooge volume :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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A little confused... are you trying to put a Bachmann sound unit in the Aristo tender?

Or do you have an Aristo tender with the factory sound card and are asking about the sensor? (the egg-shaped cam with the magnet that triggers a hall effect sensor)

Greg
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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North West Norfolk
A little confused... are you trying to put a Bachmann sound unit in the Aristo tender?

Or do you have an Aristo tender with the factory sound card and are asking about the sensor? (the egg-shaped cam with the magnet that triggers a hall effect sensor)

Greg
I have an Aristo tender, and was originally thinking that I could use the sensor to trigger a Bachmann sound card (if I can get hold of one)

But the plans of a cheapskate are frequently thwarted :nerd::nerd::nerd:
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Yeah, the hall effect sensor is not the same as a mechanical switch, better off with a reed switch and a magnet.

They are normally 3 terminal devices and actually a linear transducer, not a make-break thingy, so need a bit more electronic "guts" around them.

Greg
 
John S

John S

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The Bachmann sound card in the Annies is triggered by, what appears to me to be a simple closing of a circuit, which I presumed to be powered by the 9v PP3 battery. To test the chuff, you simply put a paperclip across the two terminals of the tender connector socket - CHUFF >:)>:)>:)>:)

So how would I rig up a simple actuator on the Aristo tender? :think::think::think::think::think:

And remember, I'm a simple builder - brick on brick, me :nod::nod::nod::nod: I understand structures, bending moments and shear, but the internecine descriptions associated with electronics sometimes hurt my head o_O
Well Three into Two does go!

116097_1c78703745af0afd93d2c960b2614ba6.png


Now to be fair, I didn't have much to go on, so a few educated assumptions were made in the process!

Does indeed work, I'd guess when the wheels rotate, that creates the Chuff from the sound card, which otherwise is always on, just seems to appear, well to my hearing anyway a continuous stream of white noise.

A little more information on the Hall Sensor would be extremely useful, a minor adjustment may be needed if and when that information is forthcoming, voltage, part number?

I presume the Hall Sensor is sited near the wheels and a magnet(s) attached to the wheel(s) are/is used to turn the sensor on and off to create the signal that is sent back to the sound card, for the chuff effect.

The Bachmann Sound trigger?, is either a reed switch or some form of mechanical device, that when it closes (on rotation of the wheels/axle,magnet) completes the circuit for the Chuff noise.

By manually waving the magnet across the Hall Sensor, and increasing the speed of the waving, able to produce what passes for a pseudo realistic Chuffing noise, it was at this point the "Other Half" decided to go out, and leave me to waving my magnet about, briskly!

I will in due course write it up, and produce either a circuit diagram or a ready built example, anyways I'm orf, have a Solenoid to play with.......
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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North West Norfolk
Well Three into Two does go!

View attachment 248492

Now to be fair, I didn't have much to go on, so a few educated assumptions were made in the process!

Does indeed work, I'd guess when the wheels rotate, that creates the Chuff from the sound card, which otherwise is always on, just seems to appear, well to my hearing anyway a continuous stream of white noise.

A little more information on the Hall Sensor would be extremely useful, a minor adjustment may be needed if and when that information is forthcoming, voltage, part number?

I presume the Hall Sensor is sited near the wheels and a magnet(s) attached to the wheel(s) are/is used to turn the sensor on and off to create the signal that is sent back to the sound card, for the chuff effect.

The Bachmann Sound trigger?, is either a reed switch or some form of mechanical device, that when it closes (on rotation of the wheels/axle,magnet) completes the circuit for the Chuff noise.

By manually waving the magnet across the Hall Sensor, and increasing the speed of the waving, able to produce what passes for a pseudo realistic Chuffing noise, it was at this point the "Other Half" decided to go out, and leave me to waving my magnet about, briskly!

I will in due course write it up, and produce either a circuit diagram or a ready built example, anyways I'm orf, have a Solenoid to play with.......
That sounds hopeful - 'scuse the pun >:)>:)>:)
 
M

Moonraker

Registered
25 Oct 2009
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Or you could go the easy route and install a MyLocoSound steam card for fifty nine quid. Then you get not just the big chuff but your choice of whistle, guard, injector, brake and brake pump sounds. And you don't need a chuff sensor, just two wires through to the motor or picking up from the track if you are using trackpower. Rik Bennett did a great video at
showing how to set up the chuff accurately.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
 
John S

John S

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59! Quid, that'll have Rhino coughing and spluttering in his Cornflakes, reading post#1, the philosophy appears to be 59p, would be more in line as an acceptable budget for this project! :)

Have a couple of the *Bachmann Sound Cards to play with.....
* Collected them last evening along with the loco's, could be going for scrap, (gears in loco's gone kaput) will have a chat with the owner later today...........

Another spot of detective work for the Aristo Hall Sensor..........what colour wire does what?

116169_e879ebabf0bd69325d03c2d2e90b3f0d.png


Opened up one of the Bachmann Locos, fairly simple idea for the chuff trigger....
116173_bd0f73fea48670a1be4939a6ed6bf002.png
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
23,475
3,286
North West Norfolk
Or you could go the easy route and install a MyLocoSound steam card for fifty nine quid. Then you get not just the big chuff but your choice of whistle, guard, injector, brake and brake pump sounds. And you don't need a chuff sensor, just two wires through to the motor or picking up from the track if you are using trackpower. Rik Bennett did a great video at
showing how to set up the chuff accurately.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
Yes, I have one in my Connie, and I've just put a diesel one in my big Bertha, and they're both great, so ....................

In the nicest possible way .......................

being a tightwad, I was trying to avoid spending £60 :mask::mask::mask::mask::mask:
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
23,475
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North West Norfolk
59! Quid, that'll have Rhino coughing and spluttering in his Cornflakes, reading post#1, the philosophy appears to be 59p, would be more in line as an acceptable budget for this project! :)

Have a couple of the *Bachmann Sound Cards to play with.....
* Collected them last evening along with the loco's, could be going for scrap, (gears in loco's gone kaput) will have a chat with the owner later today...........

Another spot of detective work for the Aristo Hall Sensor..........what colour wire does what?

View attachment 248528

Opened up one of the Bachmann Locos, fairly simple idea for the chuff trigger....
View attachment 248530
Spot on sir - nice and subtle, just like me >:)>:)>:)>:)>:)>:)
 
John S

John S

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Well as the weather has/is been so bad and not been able to get a "fix" of train porn, confined to barracks so to speak, been tinkering with the Bachmann Sound card and a Hall Sensor as the input trigger signal.

Below is the circuit, I'll keep the technobabble to a minimum, can hear the sighs and groans from here.

Thinking long term, would be advisable and if it's practical to use track power, and to use this as the power source to power both the Hall Sensor and the Bachmann Sound Card, via the usual voltage regulation circuits.

Will endeavour to set up a powered set of wheels with magnets, to fine tune and make any minor adjustments, the 100R resistor shown in the circuit, may well change in value, have tried various values to get the optimum "chuff" from the Sound Card, bit of a fine balancing act between safeguarding the input of the Optocoupler and an acceptable noise to simulate the chuff.

Also need to obtain the components used for upgrading the sound card, will need to check whether the improved version works as it should.

The circuit itself, Hall Sensor is always on (powered device) no use in this instance, sound card would always be on, the transistor acts as a reverse switch, Hall Sensor ON transistor OFF, no sound, wave magnet over Hall Sensor which now turns OFF, Transistor now turns ON, sound omits from the sound card.

The 6N137 is an optocoupler, isolates the Hall Sensor from the sound card, when Hall Sensor is activated by a magnet, sends a pulse of voltage to power the internal LED in the optocoupler, which shines onto the photo transistor which forms the output side, which then activates and allows voltage to flow and thus completes the circuit to activate the sound card (think of it as an electronic switch that works exactly the same way as the manual switch contacts as shown in the picture for the activation of the chuff from the Bachmann Loco).

PS, may be slight budget overrun! :)

EDIT: 11/02/2019 Changed circuit board layout.

116357_ff34be8f972a3d486c8fadd4eeb9c101.png
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
23,475
3,286
North West Norfolk
Well as the weather has/is been so bad and not been able to get a "fix" of train porn, confined to barracks so to speak, been tinkering with the Bachmann Sound card and a Hall Sensor as the input trigger signal.

Below is the circuit, I'll keep the technobabble to a minimum, can hear the sighs and groans from here.

Thinking long term, would be advisable and if it's practical to use track power, and to use this as the power source to power both the Hall Sensor and the Bachmann Sound Card, via the usual voltage regulation circuits.

Will endeavour to set up a powered set of wheels with magnets, to fine tune and make any minor adjustments, the 100R resistor shown in the circuit, may well change in value, have tried various values to get the optimum "chuff" from the Sound Card, bit of a fine balancing act between safeguarding the input of the Optocoupler and an acceptable noise to simulate the chuff.

Also need to obtain the components used for upgrading the sound card, will need to check whether the improved version works as it should.

The circuit itself, Hall Sensor is always on (powered device) no use in this instance, sound card would always be on, the transistor acts as a reverse switch, Hall Sensor ON transistor OFF, no sound, wave magnet over Hall Sensor which now turns OFF, Transistor now turns ON, sound omits from the sound card.

The 6N137 is an optocoupler, isolates the Hall Sensor from the sound card, when Hall Sensor is activated by a magnet, sends a pulse of voltage to power the internal LED in the optocoupler, which shines onto the photo transistor which forms the output side, which then activates and allows voltage to flow and thus completes the circuit to activate the sound card (think of it as an electronic switch that works exactly the same way as the manual switch contacts as shown in the picture for the activation of the chuff from the Bachmann Loco).

View attachment 248547
OK, am digesting slowly - what do the red 'X's signify?

Actually, some aspects of it I almost understand :mm::mm::mm:

Also, I was planning on 14.4v battery power - the little 2-4-2 even with additional tender pickups can sometimes stutter

But, thanks ever so much, John - the only think that worries me is will it cost as much as 59p :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
John S

John S

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OK, am digesting slowly - what do the red 'X's signify?

Actually, some aspects of it I almost understand :mm::mm::mm:

Also, I was planning on 14.4v battery power - the little 2-4-2 even with additional tender pickups can sometimes stutter

But, thanks ever so much, John - the only think that worries me is will it cost as much as 59p :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
RDD X's cuts in stripboard track to prevent short circuits.
I tend to use prototype board, so it's not an issue, once I've obtained the components for the sound card upgrade and tested, I'll knock one up for your perusal............

Noted comment about battery pack...................
 
PhilP

PhilP

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The silver/grey bits are copper strips on the perforated board.. Anything connected to one of these strips/columns, is connected together..
The red X's, are where the copper strips are cut, to isolate one section from another. - Hence the row between the pins of the opto-isolator package.

Sorry, obviously typing whilst John was..
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
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RDD X's cuts in stripboard track to prevent short circuits.
I tend to use prototype board, so it's not an issue, once I've obtained the components for the sound card upgrade and tested, I'll knock one up for your perusal............

Noted comment about battery pack...................
Oh, I was expecting to have to make it - I was just coming back to jot the component numbers down - wasn't expecting that sort of service :emo::emo: and all for 59p o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O

To be fair to Peter (Mylocosound) his sound cards are pretty good value, and deliver a good range of good sounds. He just has no idea how difficult it really is to be a tightwad - I mean, it's taken me years and years of practice :devil::devil::devil::devil:


Ah, gotit, the optocoupler has legs both sides, and needs isolation :nerd::nerd::nerd:
 
John S

John S

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Just a couple of queries, sound card modification this? Bachmann Sound Tips

Battery pack, supplying motor, Hall Sensor? sound card? or power this separately form a 9V Battery as normal....
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
23,475
3,286
North West Norfolk
Just a couple of queries, sound card modification this? Bachmann Sound Tips

Battery pack, supplying motor, Hall Sensor? sound card? or power this separately form a 9V Battery as normal....
Oh yes, you've found the page - if it's an Annie sound card, then simply changing the capacitor C10 as George recommends, and adding the additional capacitor in parallel to C8 really produces a nice sharp bark >:)>:) (and does away with the white noise that Bachmann include as steam hiss which, once a loco gets going, just turns the noise into one continuos hissing sid).

I think the 14.4v pack should be capable of supplying it all - the Deltang Rc65 will go up to 18v, and I haven't bought the battery pack yet, so if you think it needs a bit more grunt, I can go up to 18v.

I was planning to use Eneloop type AAs rated at 2500 mAh (Vapextech or Strikealite are my favourite suppliers).
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
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I think the 14.4v pack should be capable of supplying it all - the Deltang Rc65 will go up to 18v, and I haven't bought the battery pack yet, so if you think it needs a bit more grunt, I can go up to 18v.
16.8v if you *really* must, but do not go higher than that.. Battery packs (especially new ones) can be quite a bit higher than the 'published' figure when new.