Massoth Navigator and LGB MTS III - More than 32 addresses?

Jeff H

Jeff H

Registered
20 Jun 2020
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Dallas
Hi,

This is my first post on this forum and wanted to ask if anyone has had issues adding more than 32 loco addresses to their Massoth DiMax Navigator?

For my setup, I have the Massoth DiMax Navigator (firmware 2.1) connected to an LGB 55006 MTS III central station powered by the 5A LGB 50111 transformer.

For the past few years, I've been adding locomotives without any issues; however, today when I went to add my new LGB 20274 Heidi as address 32 it failed. Instead of getting the generic loco image with a question mark "?" (where normally I would then choose speed steps, serial/parallel and the loco name), the Navigator froze and the central station had a rapidly blinking Amber LED.

Addresses 1-31 had previously been programmed and I also have one Massoth digital pulsed smoke generator as 120. So in effect, this would be the 33rd address.

All of the documentation for the Navigator and 55006 indicates that "up to 10239" loco addresses are supported, so obviously I'm well short of that.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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The range of numbers supported is not the same as the total number of locos registered at one time. For the DCC systems that want to "memorize" all the locos, I doubt there is any system that has enough ram to store 10000 locos.

(that number comes from the theoretical maximum range of long addresses, by NMRA standard it is 1-10239... but that is weird, since it also should support short addresses... another 1-127, and I don't know if the Massoth supports consists, and what it does with overlap with short addresses)
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,723
2,766
Tamworth, Staffs.
The right hand LED show the incoming LGB bus data, so will flash intermittently..

I wonder if address '32' has already been set, at some point in the past?

PhilP.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,965
3,696
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Have you the ability to read CV’s? You should be able to with a Dimax. Or alternatively try a higher number to see if that works. I have to say the logic behind numbering Locomotives in sequence as you buy them is a bit odd (but rule 1 permits this). I like to have the loco number in some way as a reminder of the Dimax Number usually relying on the last 2 digits. I have been known to renumber a Locomotives painted number to get things to work that way. But if you use the last 2 or even 3 numbers (also include the check digit in that if there is one) you should have a near limitless supply of options.
 
muns

muns

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If I recall (this is from many moons ago mind), MTS systems have a limit of around 30 locos. mike mike may remember as I think he hit this some years back and upgraded to a Massoth system for that reason.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,723
2,766
Tamworth, Staffs.
The 55006 paperwork, say's 23 addresses..

BUT

The following section say's 10239..

**
I think this may be a bad translation??
I think the it means the address can (supposedly) be from 0-10239, as opposed to the number of addresses stored.

I still think there are limitations in the combination of 55006 and Navigator though?

PhilP.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
17,122
1,687
North Essex
If I recall (this is from many moons ago mind), MTS systems have a limit of around 30 locos. mike mike may remember as I think he hit this some years back and upgraded to a Massoth system for that reason.


I actually thought that the limit on the number of locos on MTS (II or III) was only 22.... :confused:

However that may be only when using an LGB handset, and may be different with an MTSIII with a Navigator connected?

Jon.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,965
3,696
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
On the Ruschbahn we originally had LGB I (pre P), then a couple of Dimax were added with sundry bits to make them work. For the life of me I cannot remember how many UNID’s were permitted for the decoder addresses, but I know that at the time I did a Matrix of Andrew and my Locos so that there were no conflicts when I visited with any of mine so I reckon it may well have been the 22 mentioned. Just cos a decoder can take many it does not mean that an LGB old system can address them!

That being the case looks like Jeff may have to double up on some of his addresses keeping the duplicates in isolated sidings, oh how quaint shades of analogue with DCC!
 
Jeff H

Jeff H

Registered
20 Jun 2020
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Dallas
Thanks guys! You have a good point that the manuals may be referencing the possibility of addresses between 0-10239, but that some number less than that can be registered/stored.

PhilP PhilP - I had not previously used address 32 before.

dunnyrail dunnyrail - I guess I never thought about it, but you're right, numbering the locos sequentially as I buy them is a bit strange, but I do name them appropriately and of course choose the closest image to match. I tried several other higher addresses (for example 40) and no luck.

What's interesting is that when I re-sorted the entire list (using the Navigator sort function) I realized I had missed address 27. Thinking I had found a solution, I tried to register the Heidi using address 27, but I had the same issue. Unfortunately, this is starting to look like the Navigator/LGB MTS 3 combo only supports 32 stored/registered addresses (with the analog 0 taking one of these). Starting with the 33rd registered address, it will not work.

Definitely a "1st world" problem. ;) I suppose I can just re-register locomotives as I use them, considering I never have more than 2-3 out on the track at any one time. It was just convenient to have everything pre-configured and ready to go.

As a side note, I see that the Massoth DiMax 1200Z supports "A database for 128 pre-configured locomotives"; however, for $1,250 I think I'll settle for a bit of reshuffling from time to time!
 
a98087

a98087

Registered
8 Nov 2009
1,647
151
33
Wiltshire
You could always buy a second handset and then have 32 locos on each!

Might be a challenge to decide on what locos go on what handset,

But re-register each time is a much cheaper option
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,965
3,696
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Thanks guys! You have a good point that the manuals may be referencing the possibility of addresses between 0-10239, but that some number less than that can be registered/stored.

PhilP PhilP - I had not previously used address 32 before.

dunnyrail dunnyrail - I guess I never thought about it, but you're right, numbering the locos sequentially as I buy them is a bit strange, but I do name them appropriately and of course choose the closest image to match. I tried several other higher addresses (for example 40) and no luck.

What's interesting is that when I re-sorted the entire list (using the Navigator sort function) I realized I had missed address 27. Thinking I had found a solution, I tried to register the Heidi using address 27, but I had the same issue. Unfortunately, this is starting to look like the Navigator/LGB MTS 3 combo only supports 32 stored/registered addresses (with the analog 0 taking one of these). Starting with the 33rd registered address, it will not work.

Definitely a "1st world" problem. ;) I suppose I can just re-register locomotives as I use them, considering I never have more than 2-3 out on the track at any one time. It was just convenient to have everything pre-configured and ready to go.

As a side note, I see that the Massoth DiMax 1200Z supports "A database for 128 pre-configured locomotives"; however, for $1,250 I think I'll settle for a bit of reshuffling from time to time!
I think perhaps you best option may be to think about how you operate your line then have various groups that make sence with what you do say Steam, Diesel, Electric as an example. But this will not help with pictures in the Dimax that are CV1 specific as you choose the picture. The Pictures appear Navi Specific but nit the CV if that makes sence so if you did have more than one Navi the same loco say 3 could have different pictures on each Navi. Well that is how it works on alder Navi’s nit sure if that has been updated.
 
AustrianNG

AustrianNG

Director of my railway
16 Sep 2015
1,066
1,534
Wirral
I have a Massoth Navigator paired with MTS III.
I can only have 22 loco addresses on it (Plus an analogue loco on zero).

To be fair though, I haven't tried to get above "22"

On another note, I would have thought that 1 - 127 on "short" addresses would be sufficient for any railway.........
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
17,122
1,687
North Essex
I have a Massoth Navigator paired with MTS III.
I can only have 22 loco addresses on it (Plus an analogue loco on zero).

To be fair though, I haven't tried to get above "22"

On another note, I would have thought that 1 - 127 on "short" addresses would be sufficient for any railway.........

I think there might be just one or two folks on here who would be pushing the 127-loco limit (not me, sadly....). :rofl:

Jon.
 
Jeff H

Jeff H

Registered
20 Jun 2020
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Dallas
I would be more than happy with 127! I will never have that many locos. My issue is that I seem to have hit the limit with 32.

I may have to send an email over to the folks at Massoth to get the "official" response. My assumption at this point is that the Navigator/LGB 55006 combo yields a maximum of 31 locomotive pre-registrations.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
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www.elmassian.com
Actually the confusion between the number of active locos in a system, and the actual DCC address seems to continue.

I use long addresses, that gives me 4 digit loco numbers, that is sufficient, I use the first 4 numbers of the road number on the loco, if it is a 3 digit number, I add a zero.

(very few 2 or 1 digit loco numbers on my layout).

With this simple rule, I can select any loco by sight and know it's DCC address. Punch in 4 digits and away I go, no scrolling, no searching.

Short addresses, only 2 digits would not be sufficient to handle my locos.

So long addressing, i.e. 4 digits can make things much simpler.

Greg
 
M

mibema

Registered
26 Jun 2013
40
1
58
Rhein-Neckar
Well, don't misunderstand the Decoder Adress and the limit of stored locos in the Central unit.
I had the same effect happen weeks ago with my DiMAX 1200z, when I tried to save a new loco....I tried in my Navigator to recall all locos ever stored (mine and from friends) and had a number of 66. So the maximum of possible stored locos is 128, but not 66....when I asked the MASSOTH-hotline, they told me that every Navigator stored the locos inside its own memory, but also the central-station too. So the central station adds all locos from all Navigators....and the result was "151" ! Wow ! I have had the same light-effects as decribed above.

So, approx 10.000 is the highest number that can be used AS AN ADDRESS, But not the maximum count of active locos.

MZS-3p : maximum is 22
DiMAX: maximum is 128

You may prevent such overload using "Temp" für storage in the Navigator, in case you have a new loco just for testing or from a friend.

regards,
Michael
P.S: I hope you will understand the german text on DiMAX's display.
 

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M

meiningen8

Registered
25 Oct 2009
246
14
Navigator plus mts3 should handle more than 32 addresses my set up navigator 1.7 plus MTS 111 ran up to 63 before I moved to a dimax I am no expert on these things but I should question your suppliers or try the massoth forum

good luck Meiningen
 
Jeff H

Jeff H

Registered
20 Jun 2020
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0
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Dallas
M mibema - That is good information, thank you. I read in the documentation that the DiMax 1200z supports 128 stored addresses; however, I haven't found any documentation anywhere that says how many stored addresses the LGB 55006p central station can handle. I can confirm that the DiMax Navigator + LGB MTS3 (55006p) can support more than 22. I currently have 31 locomotives registered in my DiMax Navigator, but I am unable to add even one more locomotive, no matter what address I choose.

Given that the Navigator + 1200Z can support 128 stored addresses and that the Navigator + LGB 55006p can only support 32, would certainly imply that something is being stored in the central station.

This did spur some interesting questions: Is there a way to "clear" the memory inside the LGB central station? Or does that happen when the locos are deleted using the Navigator?

I've sent out a couple of emails a few days ago, one to Massoth and one to the dealer, and will report back once I receive a reply.
 
Jeff H

Jeff H

Registered
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