Coaches for the Stirling Single

[Fred2179G]

Now that I have my "Emily" and a Smallbrook Studios conversion kit, my thoughts wandered to the rest of the train. I have a couple of Thomas coaches, the 4-wheel Annie/Clarabell duo. They don't look right with the extended 4-wheel frames. The Emily coaches with 6 wheels look better, but would need a complete repaint, as the MR/GNR didn't use green on coach stock.

I noticed the IP Engineering 4-compartment coach kit, which might look good on an Emily 6-wheel frame?

http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/ppimages/pp917a364a_0a_06.jpg

So if I bought 2 Emily coaches, I could re-use the 6-wheel underframes with an IP coach body plus the "Annie" suitably cleaned up and detailed.

Then how about taking the 2 emily bodies and joining them together into a 6-compartment 3rd with a clerestory? Something like this:

Has anyone tried any of these conversions?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

do you have many pictures of the prototype? Needing the same myself.

 

[Fred2179G]

do you have many pictures of the prototype? Needing the same myself.

Greg,
Can't believe we're worrying about prototypes, when we have a bunch of "Thomas" scale short coaches and a 1:19th scale 2' narrow gauge coach kit under consideration. But I guess you weren't around the UK visiting the preserved railways and museums.

This pic was irresistible.

"MR 851 48' Suburban Third 03,03,2012 "

Anyway, the Vintage Carriage Trust has a couple of short coaches - GNR (Great Northern Railway) and MR (Midland Railway):

Rolling Stock Collection

Perhaps more to the point, as we are dealing with a 1:25th scale std gauge loco running on slightly narrow track (almost 4' gauge) I'm after the 10' rule (Rule 8 on this website) and looking at these photos:

Most of the coaches at the front are 6-wheel and towards the rear are 2-truck bogie coaches with clerestory roofs. Like this one:

I plan to use bachmann coach trucks with the bottom strap cut off (if I ever get this far.)

No prototypes, just lots of similar pics.

 

[playmofire]

It's a short coach, but how about the 3050 LGB coach here as a basis:

LGB 3050 Coach Car, Collection Item

 

[Fred2179G]

It's a short coach, but how about the 3050 LGB coach here as a basis:

LGB 3050 Coach Car, Collection Item

Might work - probably as well as using the Emily coach as a starting point.

 

[playmofire]

Might work - probably as well as using the Emily coach as a starting point.

It can also be found in a browny-red but this is a rarity.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I've found some paintings of trains pulled by a single that were the light brown color... sure would like to know more of the history.

Yeah, funny taking a Thomas the Train "member" and worrying about the prototype, except for the investment to take this actually quite reasonable model and make it more prototypical.

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

I've found some paintings of trains pulled by a single that were the light brown color... sure would like to know more of the history.

Yeah, funny taking a Thomas the Train "member" and worrying about the prototype, except for the investment to take this actually quite reasonable model and make it more prototypical.

Greg

I think the light brown all over is likely to be varnished teak - common with the GNR and the later LNER

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Did have a momentary brain f**t, thanks! now I remember it was teak.. any idea if the red coaches were later, earlier, same time?

Thanks,

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

Did have a momentary brain f**t, thanks! now I remember it was teak.. any idea if the red coaches were later, earlier, same time?

Thanks,

Greg

If, as suggested by others, they were MR coaches, they would have been Crimson Lake, but I'm pretty certain that colour would have been around the same time as the GNR teak.

I would have thought that the Single would have been hauling coaches of its own railway company before venturing farther afield, but there may well have been some trains of 'through' coaches - in other words, starting on one company's metals and finishing on another's.

We may need someone with a bit more knowledge

 

[Greg Elmassian]

 

[Fred2179G]

Lots of good history here of the Midland & Great Northern Joint Railway, which was owned by (you guessed it) the Midland Railway and the Great Northern Railway.

The "Railway Race to the North", a fabled series of events in the 1885-1895 period, was a province of the express Singles. Here's one about to depart Kings Cross on the first leg of the race to Aberdeen.

The Midland coaches, which were apparently often mixed with the teak coaches of the GNR, would have been maroon (= crimson lake) as shown in the photo in my post above.

Most Aster Stirling Singles pull all-teak consists. Like this one on a euro eBay site:

Which reminds me - those curled edge roofs are going to be an issue on a modified "Annie" or IP Engineering coach! Maybe some 1/4 round and tissue paper covering to hide the joints?

Murray Wilson's son Nick was running a similar train at Cabin Fever early this year - it shows up on the videos.

Finally, I note that Hornby made a set of Midland clerestory coaches in 4mm scale. They are a useful reference for color and lining.

 

[playmofire]

Did have a momentary brain f**t, thanks! now I remember it was teak.. any idea if the red coaches were later, earlier, same time?

Thanks,

Greg

Only that they seem to be scarcer; there was a re version and a red and green version as well as the green version, which is by far the more common.

Here are links to the red (30504) and red and green versions (30503).

Google Image Result for https://www.grootspoor.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/850x/8036359d7621e9f988c54ed0b7ea2a5e/3/0/30504.jpg

LGB 30503, Abteilwagen 3.und 4. Klasse • EUR 88,56

 

[Fred2179G]

I think Greg was referring to the Midland prototype?
If so, the answer is that there was lots of overlap. Teak coaches were around until WWII, and the Midland used crimson lake until nationalization in 1952.
What is more relevant is that clerestory coaches were obsolete by about 1900, as were 6-wheel underframes - and Stirling Singles.

 

[playmofire]

I think Greg was referring to the Midland prototype?
If so, the answer is that there was lots of overlap. Teak coaches were around until WWII, and the Midland used crimson lake until nationalization in 1952.
What is more relevant is that clerestory coaches were obsolete by about 1900, as were 6-wheel underframes - and Stirling Singles.

Although the last single driving wheel loco wasn't withdrawn until 1935 (though not a Stirling).

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I like that train in the picture above, the 3 different style of coaches.... any clue the colors?

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

I like that train in the picture above, the 3 different style of coaches.... any clue the colors?

Greg

The 4-wheeler and the two 6-wheelers I'd say teak.

The bogie clerestories need a bit more research - I hadn't realised, but looking more closely they appear to be running on 6-w bogies

Had a quick look, and the only coach that I could find that resembled it was from the Highland Railway - in teak

Frustratingly, that photo (which can be found on wiki) does not identify a location

 

[Fred2179G]

I like that train in the picture above, the 3 different style of coaches.... any clue the colors?

Rhinochugger:
The 4-wheeler and the two 6-wheelers I'd say teak.

The bogie clerestories need a bit more research - I hadn't realised, but looking more closely they appear to be running on 6-w bogies

The 4-wheeler (2nd coach) could be maroon or teak? There's a Midland 4-wheeler in Pinterest [what is that site for anyway? You can see it on google but have to sign in to view?!?]

When I googled "Midland Railway Coach" images, I got several pictures of coaches with 6-wheel trucks, like this one. They were quite common on heavier vehicles.
http://www.rocarmodelcarriages.co.u...don-midland-and-scottish-railway/lms-gallery/
(This photo shows up when I edit, but not when I 'save'.)

I believe many of the teak coaches got a coat of maroon (crimson lake) paint later in life - many only returned to teak in preservation. So it would be possible to see the Single pulling an all-maroon train of 4-wheel, 6-wheel, and bogie coaches. I haven't found many pictures of clerestory GNR Teak coaches, though there's a Directors saloon on the Bluebell Railway. More likely, a few GNR teak coaches and some Midland maroon bogie coaches would be a good compromise.
(Googling "Great Northern Railway" does get you a lot of USA pictures from the GN.) Some other interesting pics here

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Interesting design from an American's point of view.

 

[Fred2179G]

Interesting design from an American's point of view.

Well, yes. Individual compartments were common before 1900 - probably something to do with the British Class system - can't have the riff-raff wandering through your space. Distances were shorter, and many UK stations were quite close, so "suburban" coaches often had multiple doors to speed up the ingress/egress of passengers in the daily commute. They were still in use in the 1990s:

And don't be fooled by the fact that looks like the same kind of coach! It's a North Eastern Railway coach - totally different company and a fierce rival of the Midland!