Coaches for the Stirling Single

Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
The 4-wheeler (2nd coach) could be maroon or teak? There's a Midland 4-wheeler in Pinterest [what is that site for anyway? You can see it on google but have to sign in to view?!?]

When I googled "Midland Railway Coach" images, I got several pictures of coaches with 6-wheel trucks, like this one. They were quite common on heavier vehicles.
http://www.rocarmodelcarriages.co.uk/railway-companies/london-midland-and-scottish-railway/lms-gallery/
(This photo shows up when I edit, but not when I 'save'.)



I believe many of the teak coaches got a coat of maroon (crimson lake) paint later in life - many only returned to teak in preservation. So it would be possible to see the Single pulling an all-maroon train of 4-wheel, 6-wheel, and bogie coaches. I haven't found many pictures of clerestory GNR Teak coaches, though there's a Directors saloon on the Bluebell Railway. More likely, a few GNR teak coaches and some Midland maroon bogie coaches would be a good compromise.
(Googling "Great Northern Railway" does get you a lot of USA pictures from the GN.) Some other interesting pics here
Yes, in general the independent companies used 6-w bogies on Dining Cars, but going back to that train behind the Stirling Single, they wouldn't all be Dining Cars :shake::shake::shake: also the clerestory roof ends are unlike the MR versions, and curve down in a similar way to a Jackson Sharpe coach, but slightly less blunt - not a duckbill though. I'm still with the Highland Railway on these having found a 4mm:1ft build blog on good ole' Google.

As to the 4-wheeler, mmmmm :think::think::think: it has a different roof line, and a crest on the middle door so yes, could well be a Midland carriage and would most likely be Maroon (Crimson Lake) :nod::nod::nod:
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
Well, yes. Individual compartments were common before 1900 - probably something to do with the British Class system - can't have the riff-raff wandering through your space. Distances were shorter, and many UK stations were quite close, so "suburban" coaches often had multiple doors to speed up the ingress/egress of passengers in the daily commute. They were still in use in the 1990s:


And don't be fooled by the fact that looks like the same kind of coach! It's a North Eastern Railway coach - totally different company and a fierce rival of the Midland!
Yes, and some other European countries - as Fred said, there were originally three classes of travel on British Railways, and in the pioneer days, third class was an open truck o_Oo_O the sort of thing that tourists pay extra for now :devil::devil::devil:
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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The opening shot shows a train moving with several door open... that looks dangerous to people inside and people on a platform!

Greg
Yep, and that's how you gain an extra couple of seconds on your commute! (There's a later shot of a guy jumping off while the train is still moving.) When waiting, you learn not to stand too close to the edge of the platform. ;)
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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Yes, in general the independent companies used 6-w bogies on Dining Cars, but going back to that train behind the Stirling Single, they wouldn't all be Dining Cars :shake::shake::shake: also the clerestory roof ends are unlike the MR versions, and curve down in a similar way to a Jackson Sharpe coach, but slightly less blunt - not a duckbill though. I'm still with the Highland Railway on these having found a 4mm:1ft build blog on good ole' Google.

As to the 4-wheeler, mmmmm :think::think::think: it has a different roof line, and a crest on the middle door so yes, could well be a Midland carriage and would most likely be Maroon (Crimson Lake) :nod::nod::nod:
The other photo shows the similar coaches:



US clerestories were often terminated like that - and there were some USA Pullmans imported for use on the Midland.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
The other photo shows the similar coaches:



US clerestories were often terminated like that - and there were some USA Pullmans imported for use on the Midland.
Ooh, and there's a banker at the rear :nod::nod::nod:
 
penylanpip

penylanpip

Registered
1 Apr 2010
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www.gscalecentral.net
Banker:
An additional loco pushing at the rear - pretty well essential to get those large wheeled locos going from stand, especially with a load like this!
The loco at the rear would not be coupled to the train and would just drop off at a pre-determined(!) spot along the line, when it was considered that the train had gathered sufficient momentum to continue solo.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
OK, Banker only means a man/woman working at a bank to me... is there another source of motive power at the end, or is "banker" like "banking a fire"?

Greg
Aha - those bankers will be in first class :nod::nod::nod:

Gottit - a helper at the rear >:)
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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Ooh, and there's a banker at the rear :nod::nod::nod:
Yes. And notice that the 3 coaches with the curved clerestory don't have continuous footboards/steps, like the regular coaches - suggests they are the US import Pullmans?
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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To get back to our regularly scheduled programs. . . I emailed IP Engineering to ask about the 4-compartment coach kit, and Ivan replied that it is 345mm, or 14 3/8" to us non-metric yanks. The Bachmann coach is 13" long.
This isn't surprising, as IP's coach is 1:19th scale, and we think Thomas is around 1:25th. People are still the same size, so IP's coach needs to be wide enough for 1:19th people. That LGB 3050D Coach might be a better bet at 1:22.5, if I really need a different coach.
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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I was searching for something this afternoon and what did I find - my carriage drawings book of LMS and LNER coaches. It not only has 6-wheel MR (Midland Railway) coaches, but the 48' clerestory bogie coaches, and clerestory coaches with tapered ends and 6-wheel trucks.

20180918_160428_resized-drawings-book.jpg
20180918_160455-MR-48ft-coach.jpg
20180918_160507-WCJS-coach-clererstory.jpg
20180918_160534-MR-6wheel-coaches.jpg


It is noticeable (which I had forgotten) that despite all the doors, most of these coaches had corridors for access to the lavatory/restroom.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,351
814
Tamworth, Staffs.
It is noticeable (which I had forgotten) that despite all the doors, most of these coaches had corridors for access to the lavatory/restroom.
That's convenient!
:):giggle::giggle:
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
I was searching for something this afternoon and what did I find - my carriage drawings book of LMS and LNER coaches. It not only has 6-wheel MR (Midland Railway) coaches, but the 48' clerestory bogie coaches, and clerestory coaches with tapered ends and 6-wheel trucks.

View attachment 243479 View attachment 243480 View attachment 243481 View attachment 243482

It is noticeable (which I had forgotten) that despite all the doors, most of these coaches had corridors for access to the lavatory/restroom.
Wey hey :clap::clap::clap: and that identifies the 6w bogie cars as West Coast Joint Stock - now I sharrafter to find out where the GN routes were :whew::whew:

But Greg will be wanting to borrow the book :nod::nod::nod:
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
65 1057

65 1057

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Berlin
The opening shot shows a train moving with several door open... that looks dangerous to people inside and people on a platform!

Greg
Opening the doors was standard on the "Stadtbahner"-Type of Berliner S-Bahn - look at 0:50 and at minute 08:15.
People were just more disciplined...

Andreas

 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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Opening the doors was standard on the "Stadtbahner"-Type of Berliner S-Bahn - look at 0:50 and at minute 08:15.
People were just more disciplined...

Andreas
Yes, but they used sliding doors - which the Brits adopted to replace the "slam" type. Much safer for the folk on the platform!
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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Wey hey :clap::clap::clap: and that identifies the 6w bogie cars as West Coast Joint Stock - now I sharrafter to find out where the GN routes were :whew::whew:

But Greg will be wanting to borrow the book :nod::nod::nod:
It probably also identifies the time of the photo, as the big WCJS coaches weren't built until the early 1900s, while the clerestory stuff is all 1890+.
I doubt Greg wants to make a really detailed model of the protoype, but the drawings are useful for figuring out if "Clarabell" is anywhere near the same scale as "Emily".:cool: I did take a look at a Midland 6-wheel coach dwg, which shows it is 30' long (body only) or 14.4" in 1/25th. I mentioned that Clarabell is 13" long, so the scales aren't too far out.
 
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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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www.elmassian.com
To be clear: I want a "reasonable" consist of cars, I'm flexible on the period/date. What I have determined so far is that the cars sold with "Emily" are the wrong type and color.

I really like the cars with the "duckett", and the teak looks beautiful, more work, but beautiful.

If I could make a consist close to the picture above, that would be cool.

Greg
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik (IBT)
27 Oct 2009
26,067
859
North West Norfolk
To be clear: I want a "reasonable" consist of cars, I'm flexible on the period/date. What I have determined so far is that the cars sold with "Emily" are the wrong type and color.

I really like the cars with the "duckett", and the teak looks beautiful, more work, but beautiful.

If I could make a consist close to the picture above, that would be cool.

Greg
Mmmmmmmmm difficult to find in any garden railway scale. Garden Railway Specialists have severely reduced their range, but they do have an odd coach or two in their G45 range which might assist

Garden Railway Specialists Tel:01844 345158 - Home