A high pitched Pip

[chasaitch]

One of my locos fitted with an Emotion XLS decoder issues a high pitched peep after the first couple of revolutions on starting, not the starting signal, which repeats 3 or 4 times before it stops but this happens every time it starts from rest. The other problem I'm experiencing is the pulsed smoke unit is not working nor producing smoke. Is there anything I can try before I dismantle the loco to find out what's up.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I gather this is a steam loco.

Sure you can try reading the CV's, resetting the decoder, read CV's on the smoke unit, lots of stuff..

Did you install this unit? Are you familiar with reading and writing CV's? Do you have the equipment to do so?

Greg

 

[chasaitch]

Tis a Hartz 2-10-2 and had the decoder installed although the smoke unit was installed by LGB. Must admit to not having read the CVs on the SU, I shall look at it in morning and yes I have a Massoth Central unit and Navigator amd more bumph than you can shake a stick at and can't understand a word of it!
A thoght occured and shall persue that in morning as well.

 

[stockers]

I dont actually know - but I suspect the power requirement for a pulsed smoke genny may be too much for a standard chip output.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The "strongest" function outputs are 600 ma, the light outputs are 300 ma, and 4 of the function outputs are only 10 ma.

You may indeed be on the "edge" of power consumption. There is also a total limit on all the output (not counting the motor)

Greg

 

[PhilP]

I dont actually know - but I suspect the power requirement for a pulsed smoke genny may be too much for a standard chip output.

The pulsed smoke generator has its' own decoder.. So is track-powered.

The axle-mounted pulse generator, should go into the smoke unit, and is then onward-linked to the decoder. - This is a 'control' signal, so low current.

 

[stockers]

That sounds OK then Phil - if it's been wired correctly!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

He says the smoke generator was installed by LGB, so I took it as a stock LGB heater, not a Massoth pulsed unit.

So maybe the first post needs clarification, what smoke unit exactly was "installed by LGB"...

Greg

 

[chasaitch]

My Hartzbul 2-10-2 still goes pip. I took it out of its box yesterday and placing it on my piece of track in no shade of grey shed (its painted in a sort of LMS colour scheme) and a whiff of smoke was emitted from the chimney but that was it, toggling through F7 did not elicit any noises from the smoke unit fan. The pips seem to bear a correlation with the voltage applied in speed changes so I had begun to think that it is the smoke unit, but then I started thinking that with CV15/16 being the protection from unintentional programming it should not be affected by changing the loco address, although comming to think about it I didn't try changing the loco address back to 3 to see whether that might help. I suppose I am going to have to bite the bullet and disassemble the beast and see what else I can cock up. Any bright ideas anyone?

 

[PhilP]

I would think that with (in effect) two decoder, smoke-unit and XLS, you will need to isolate them from each other if you wish to program / investigate CV values..

My first guess for 'no control' is that one of the addresses has been changed, but not the other.

I would isolate one power lead from each decoder..
Connect to common and just the lead to one decoder, then read CV's '1' and '29'. - '1' for the short address, and '29' to make sure the decoder is not set for long-address.

Repeat for other decoder.

Once both have the same address, or confirmation they are still the same, you can move on..

Next, I think I would leave the smoke-unit disconnected. See that loco runs, and if you still get the 'pip' noise. - If you do, it is either something to do with the XLS, or a problem within the loco.
Think I would also check what each function key has been programmed to do..

 

[stockers]

As Phil said - also, when testing for a noise from the fan in the heater you need to run the loco. The fan does not run all the time but is timed by the chuff mechanism, whether that be by voltage or a sensor.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

It's almost 3 months now, you will have to open the loco... as you asked on April 20, sorry!

Greg

 

[chasaitch]

It's almost 3 months now, you will have to open the loco... as you asked on April 20, sorry!

Greg

Procrastination is a wonderful thing. Fancy living in a world that you never have anything to do because you have already done it. Honest Greg I will gird my loins and do it some day!

 

[chasaitch]

So the Hartzbul 2-10-2 lies in bits on my workbench in the Fat Controllers Office. A bit of wire chasing to find what goes where and then the potential to really bugger it all up by hooking it up to the computer and doing some programming! God help us!. The question is since I don't have a motor to provide a load sourse would the removal of the small tits on the gear wheal of a point motor so that it can spin be sufficient?

 

[PhilP]

So the Hartzbul 2-10-2 lies in bits on my workbench in the Fat Controllers Office. A bit of wire chasing to find what goes where and then the potential to really bugger it all up by hooking it up to the computer and doing some programming! God help us!. The question is since I don't have a motor to provide a load sourse would the removal of the small tits on the gear wheal of a point motor so that it can spin be sufficient?

Yes.. Any small load would do. - Even a car side / number-plate / courtesy-light bulb, but not anything bigger..

 

[chasaitch]

Having had a look at what I have, the smoke unit is not a massoth. It has 3 wires that go down into one of the motors and 2 wires that are the power feed and which show 15+ volts under drive and about 38v at rest, this from the massoth XLS sound card. There are no dip switches. The sticker on the unit reads MLGB 154247, MEO17095 or is that ME017095 1055 and Rauchgenerator 5V. Any ideas as to where I go from here?

 

[Zerogee]

The three wires from the smoke unit down to the motor block will be to the Hall Sensor for chuff synchronisation, and the other two for power - but lord knows how you're getting a reading of 38 volts.....?

Jon.

 

[PhilP]

The three wires from the smoke unit down to the motor block will be to the Hall Sensor for chuff synchronisation, and the other two for power - but lord knows how you're getting a reading of 38 volts.....?

Jon.

?Meter confused by the DCC signal would be my guess?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Maybe....

Just a tip, there are some decoders that really need a motor, not just a load. I use decoders that have BEMF and they "count" the transitions on the commutator as the motor turns... a plain load like a resistor has no transisitons, and thus the decoder figures the motor is bad/not moving.

So, I always use a small motor for everything and don't have to remember which needs what.

Normally a non-rms meter reads a bit lower, not higher voltage, 38 volts seems weird.

Greg

 

[chasaitch]

I am awfully confused. I have also discovered that toggling F7 on the navigator does not affect whether there is power to the smoke unit. I am certain that the "pip" sound is load sensitive in so far as it only occures when accelerating from one speed to a higher speed, otherwise there is no noise. When I purchased the loco I had the sound card fitted before I took delivery so have no knowlege of the performance of the smoke unit and surmise that it was always powered from the original control card, but now it is wired through the sound card. Would it be worth replacing the power wires from the smoke unit back onto the main card and on what output do I wire it to?