The dark side has finally won.....I have fun with a couple of LGB DCC streetcars..BUT.....

[whatlep]

Hi Peter (or Muns, or anyone else who can answer this) - can I just ask a basic question to clarify something that I'm not 100% sure about?
When you have a Dimax and one Navigator, you program all your loco fleet into the Navi and it stores the details of each of them, both in the Navi's own memory AND in that of your Dimax station. Now, if you later buy a second Navigator and connect it to your Dimax, do you have to manually enter all your loco details into that one as well, or does it read and copy the info that is already stored in the central station's own memory?

Jon.

Hi Jon

Can't answer that one for sure as I don't have a Massoth central station, but the Navigator instructions suggest a second one needs to be programmed with loco information and switch route data. Have a shufti on http://www.massoth.de < Link To www.massoth.de in the downloads section and see what you think.

 

[Zerogee]

Hi Peter (or Muns, or anyone else who can answer this) - can I just ask a basic question to clarify something that I'm not 100% sure about?
When you have a Dimax and one Navigator, you program all your loco fleet into the Navi and it stores the details of each of them, both in the Navi's own memory AND in that of your Dimax station. Now, if you later buy a second Navigator and connect it to your Dimax, do you have to manually enter all your loco details into that one as well, or does it read and copy the info that is already stored in the central station's own memory?

Jon.

Hi Jon

Can't answer that one for sure as I don't have a Massoth central station, but the Navigator instructions suggest a second one needs to be programmed with loco information and switch route data. Have a shufti on http://www.massoth.de < Link To www.massoth.de in the downloads section and see what you think.

Thanks Peter - I've got the manuals for both the Dimax and the Navi, but I was asking on here in the hope that someone could give me a simple answer to avoid me having to plough through the sometimes non-intuitive manuals....? Anyone else here who is fully Massoth-equipped and experienced (oo-er...) care to chip in?

Jon.

 

[lone ranger]

Hi Peter (or Muns, or anyone else who can answer this) - can I just ask a basic question to clarify something that I'm not 100% sure about?
When you have a Dimax and one Navigator, you program all your loco fleet into the Navi and it stores the details of each of them, both in the Navi's own memory AND in that of your Dimax station. Now, if you later buy a second Navigator and connect it to your Dimax, do you have to manually enter all your loco details into that one as well, or does it read and copy the info that is already stored in the central station's own memory?

Jon.

Hi Jon

Can't answer that one for sure as I don't have a Massoth central station, but the Navigator instructions suggest a second one needs to be programmed with loco information and switch route data. Have a shufti on http://www.massoth.de < Link To www.massoth.de in the downloads section and see what you think.

Thanks Peter - I've got the manuals for both the Dimax and the Navi, but I was asking on here in the hope that someone could give me a simple answer to avoid me having to plough through the sometimes non-intuitive manuals....? Anyone else here who is fully Massoth-equipped and experienced (oo-er...) care to chip in?

Jon.

Hi Jon don,t know if this helps "from basic programming dcc"

Advanced Consisting

Consist Address

Each locomotive in the consist is assigned the same consist address by programming CV 19 with the consist address between 1 and 127. If a locomotive is facing backwards in the consist (common in diesel operations), it should be programmed with the same consist address PLUS 128. if the forward facing locomotives are set to consist 60 for example, the backwards engine must be set to 60+128 = 188. Failure to do this to do this will turn the consist into an angry pushme-pullyou as all locomotives will try to move forward from the perspective of their own cab and a few pulled couplers might result!
End of Quote
Now the prelim to that was that the decoder was able to deal with advanced consisting as some early decoders couldn't.
jerry

 

[beavercreek]

Hi Jon

Can't answer that one for sure as I don't have a Massoth central station, but the Navigator instructions suggest a second one needs to be programmed with loco information and switch route data. Have a shufti on http://www.massoth.de < Link To www.massoth.de in the downloads section and see what you think.

Thanks Peter - I've got the manuals for both the Dimax and the Navi, but I was asking on here in the hope that someone could give me a simple answer to avoid me having to plough through the sometimes non-intuitive manuals....? Anyone else here who is fully Massoth-equipped and experienced (oo-er...) care to chip in?

Jon.
[/quote]
Hi Jon don,t know if this helps "from basic programming dcc"

Advanced Consisting

Consist Address

Each locomotive in the consist is assigned the same consist address by programming CV 19 with the consist address between 1 and 127. If a locomotive is facing backwards in the consist (common in diesel operations), it should be programmed with the same consist address PLUS 128. if the forward facing locomotives are set to consist 60 for example, the backwards engine must be set to 60+128 = 188. Failure to do this to do this will turn the consist into an angry pushme-pullyou as all locomotives will try to move forward from the perspective of their own cab and a few pulled couplers might result!
End of Quote
Now the prelim to that was that the decoder was able to deal with advanced consisting as some early decoders couldn't.
jerry


[/quote]

Hi jerry I posted this earlier in the thread complete with 'basic' and 'universal' consisting as I was wondering if this is available as a function of Dimax and navigator but 'whatlep' Peter has said that it was left out of the Massoth software but is actually in the LGB Universal controller but only for two locos. It is available on the Zimo, NCE systems but I have no idea about ESU or Lenz

 

[lone ranger]

Hi mike the point i was trying to make and I didn't do it very well was that if you were to run your two genesis diesels permanently back to back you could use the programming track to a first programme CV 19 to 1 for example with both diesels on the track . Then remove one and change cv19 to 129 then put them both back on the main and they should then both run correctly under consist 1. that gets round the massouth limitation of not allowing you to individually adjusting CV19 when you form a consist.

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks Jerry and Mike, but my question wasn't anything to do with consisting multiple locos - it was about actually loading the details of all your locos into the Navi's and the Central station's memories, and whether you then had to do it all over again when you add a second Navi onto the system?

Guess I'll just have to dig out my manuals and fudge through them till I figure it out.....

Jon.

 

[mike]

ive run more than 1 anolg loco on the masoth .. but hey ...

 

[lone ranger]

Thanks Jerry and Mike, but my question wasn't anything to do with consisting multiple locos - it was about actually loading the details of all your locos into the Navi's and the Central station's memories, and whether you then had to do it all over again when you add a second Navi onto the system?

Guess I'll just have to dig out my manuals and fudge through them till I figure it out.....

Jon.

Sorry Jon add to the wrong bit of the tread

 

[mike]

no when adding a second or 3rdnav.. when u selcect the loco already stored on the 1200z.. it will aapear on the nav. as a loco icon,.. but with out its name, ie red corpet ect ..

 

[Zerogee]

Right, I THINK I've managed to answer my own question, by the simple expedient - as suggested by Peter - of RTFM (Read The F***ing Manual!).
Page 12 of the Dimax 1200Z manual says this:
...........
One of the prominent benefits of the DiMAX® Digital System is the ability to store locomotive
data permanently such as address, speed step configuration, special functions, and the picto-
gram. These data are made available to all DiMAX® Navigators or other handheld controllers
connected to the DiMAX® Central Station. This data is available after every power up and will
not be lost after shut down. The names of the locomotives are generally user related and
therefore stored in the handheld controller only.
The integrated database stores up to 128 locomotives permanently. All relevant locomotive
data is shown immediately after the respective address has been put in a DiMAX® Navigator.
The address, speed steps, special functions, and pictogram are displayed here. The locomot-
ive is ready to drive without any further actions. The only thing for you to do is: select and
load the locomotive.
.............

The bit in bold is highlighted by me - this seems to be the answer I was looking for, in that apparently I DON'T have to enter the details of every single loco in the second Navigator, the new Navi reads the stored database from the central station. What it still does NOT really tell me is whether that data is actually then re-stored in the newly-connected second Navi, or if it is only reading it as required from the Dimax - hence if I took the second Navi to someone else's layout along with one or more of my own locos, then my Navi would NOT haveaccess to the database for my own locos - I'd have to enter the relevant ones up as "guest" locos (temporarily stored only) on the host's system.

Does that make any sense at all, and can anyone confirm this?

Jon.

 

[beavercreek]

Whoops Jon and Jerry
Going all the way back to when I started this thread....I was weighing up the pros and cons of where I am as far as DCC and DC is concerned and I stated that I loved the way that dcc gives the individual control and accessible functions BUT as I sling together consists (and use the locs separately) under DC I was a bit disappointed that I could not use the same 'on the fly' approach when using DCC.
I really need to know for sure the following:
The fact that it seems that maybe more than one analogue loco at once can be used on DCC is great but I need to know if anyone has done this with USAT or Aristo locos with no detriment to the motors

Also is there a way of making consist 'on the fly' that allow switching of direction of individual locos without them having to be switched back if used in different scenarios when in DCC....apparently NCE and Zimo allow this but Massoth have not yet included it.

 

[Zerogee]

no when adding a second or 3rdnav.. when u selcect the loco already stored on the 1200z.. it will aapear on the nav. as a loco icon,.. but with out its name, ie red corpet ect ..

Thanks Mike, you posted that while I was busily typing up my own long post above - your reply confirms the answer to my original query!

Jon.

 

[beavercreek]

I think that we have the subject matter for two distinct threads here.....................

 

[Phil]

This consisting lark is quite hard.. I know..

 

[Sandy]

Yes it is a bit of a lark, no picture, but Phillip had a consisit of 4 LGB locos running the same day he took that picture.
Synchronised station announcements, whistle, brakesound, bells, it is really noisy with 2,3, or 4 locos. Just as well we have no neighbours.....we used to.....not sure what happened.

 

[lone ranger]

I think that we have the subject matter for two distinct threads here.....................

This darkside is at lot of fun ain't it at the moment I've a bit of track and two loco's on the dinning table with the massoth playing with all the CV's . Oh what Fun

 

[beavercreek]

This consisting lark is quite hard.. I know..

What system are you using Phil?
Do you have to change the CV on the locos that you want pointing the 'wrong' way?
Or do you do it 'on the fly'?
Have you combined DCC and DC locos in a consist?
Sorry about all of the questions but you did post a piccie of a consist.......

 

[Phil]

What system are you using Phil?
Do you have to change the CV on the locos that you want pointing the 'wrong' way?
Or do you do it 'on the fly'?
Have you combined DCC and DC locos in a consist?
Sorry about all of the questions but you did post a piccie of a consist.......

I am using the same system as you are Mike.
i have not changed any Cv's as all LGB factory fitted sound and Dcc loco's run the same way..
all loco's in the consists above and below are all Dcc..
The final picture with 5 locos, the 2 G/E 4/4 III's and the 2 G/E 4/4 II where the quadruple headed train i made.
It did look quite impressive with 12 Rhb coaches 2 gourminos and 2 baggage wagons in tow.
I forgot to take pictures :wits:

 

[beavercreek]

This darkside is at lot of fun ain't it at the moment I've a bit of track and two loco's on the dinning table with the massoth playing with all the CV's . Oh what Fun

Are you going for a new job then Gerry....Cvs (geddit)? tee hee
Well I am trying to get my head around the ramification of the move to DCC and the more I go forward the more there is to keep me back!!
I have always been an Apple Mac guy and when others were saying what fun the DOS C:> prompt was and how it made you 'in control of the computer', I was actually experiencing the best GUI available and actually making use of the computer.
In a way CVs are a bit like DOS, they are an system that has a steep learning curve, If a GUI interface was put over them (a bit like the SPROG and JRMI software but even more graphic) then DCC would not be in the same place as DOS was when even Windows came on the scene........ That would mean that it was much more accessible and a hell of a lot more people would be using it and also it would be able to be even more flexible and be able to be developed to do a lot of programming stuff 'on the fly' but without the user having to know about 'values' etc.
I put my bottom dollar that there will be a better GUI for CVs (even more intuitive than the SPROG) developed before long.

I know there are folk out there who will say 'I use CVs and they are easy and it does not need to be graphical'
but that was the same argument made by the C:> exponents back in the late '80s when Mac OS and then later, Windows were introduced.

DISCUSS .......tee hee

 

[beavercreek]

I am using the same system as you are Mike.
i have not changed any Cv's as all LGB factory fitted sound and Dcc loco's run the same way..
all loco's in the consists above and below are all Dcc..
The final picture with 5 locos, the 2 G/E 4/4 III's and the 2 G/E 4/4 II where the quadruple headed train i made.
It did look quite impressive with 12 Rhb coaches 2 gourminos and 2 baggage wagons in tow.
I forgot to take pictures :wits:

Hi Phil
Great piccies!

Because I have US consists that mean I will put locos together 'on the fly' facing different ways (as is prototypical in the States) and under DC this doesn't matter, and then use the locos on their own or in another consist straight away without having to change anything...I am trying to get to the bottom of how to do this the easiest way under DCC but it looks like it is not so easy as with DC...well not yet anyway!