Rollwagenzug - Another Roll Wagon Project

[dunnyrail]

Not to outdo James superb efforts, I have long been proposing to add some to my line. Inevitably I will be drawing from his masterpiece, but adding a few of my own errors and wrangles.

WHEELS
The project kick started when I got a Dickie Train Set. There were 3 Bogie Wagons in this set and I deduced correctly that they would be small enough for a Harz Rf4 Rollwagen. It was further added to in that I had some small IP Engineering 16mm Dia insulated Wheels. I then moved on with aquisitions getting some more IP Engineering Wheels. Sadly he no longer does these as Insulated Sets but was quite happy to supply insulated sleaves, which with a little opening out of the Wheel Sets have now been fitted. That has given me wheels for 2 Wagons, 1 will remain on its Insulated Wheels till I get round to ordering some more from Ivan.

STOCK FOR THEM TO CARRY
The next stage in the puzzle came when Andy Rush sadly died. His final Large Wagon was a LGB 43880 Wooden Bodied Open. It is an RHB Wagon, but the RHB has been weathered out. I will need to do some RIV Transfers for a believable main line SG Wagon.  Another LGB Open Wagon 45880 has been sourced from Ebay at a very good price I think. This is a DB Steel Open which is ideal. For the third Wagon I rather like the look of the Piko 37901 Open Wagon. As this is a bit shorter I think than the LGB ones it should look suitably different in the Rake.

BODY WORK
I have a lot of Plasticard made up U Channel, came from the Ruschbahn and was the side of varying items of scenery round the layout. The very long bit was the Bridge Front that hid the Loco Road in Gehoelz.

THE PROJECT STARTS
Bogies
First job was to get the Bogies in order. This involved cutting off the Couplings and Bogie Side extensions. As these were inside bogies anyway that was all pretty easy work for Mr Hacksaw. The Bearing surface is the Snap In Holder on pretty well all the inside of each bogie. So the only job was to open out the end holes with a drill so that the IP wheel sets would fit and Roll freely. This was carried out with an Electric Drill and the right size Bit. Here are a few pics of the progress so far. How quickly this will progress is entirely dependent on the weather.







Pics show Original Bogie, as cut and a couple ready to go showing the bits cut off.

 

[Gizzy]

How do those smaller diameter wheels cope with LGB points Jon?

I know the Dickie wheel sets don't like them, but hopefully the IP ones (of which I have no experience) will be a lot better....

 

[dunnyrail]

Gizzy,
The IP Wheels are perfect on LGB, just tried out on a Double Slip and R1 point for you. There is a small dip just on the Gap between the Rail and the Frog. But the Check Rail does its job and stops the IP set from trying to take the Straight Route when on the Curve.

As for the Dickie set, well yes they are prone to not being able to decide which way to go. This if you take a bogie off of a Wagon is due to the Back To Back being around  1mm to 1.5 mm wider than the IP ones. So I would suggest that you adjust the Back to Back on the Dickie. I have just done this by wrenching A wheel of its axle and filing off 2mm of the Axle. When you put the wheel back on, you will probably need to file a little off the outside of the Bogie Bearing as the wheel will now be tight.  Set wheels as per LGB then double check on a point to ensure that the Check Rail is doing it`s job. Lo Dickie no problems on LGB Track.

That was a good call by you as the two bogies that still have Dickie Wheel Sets would have caused me a problem.

Meanwhile a pic of the 6 Bogies on the Workbench together with the Tools used to Modify them. A File and Hammer was used to Modify the Dickie Back to Back as described above.



JonD

 

[Gizzy]

Had a Dickie ICE train a while ago which didn't like my R1 points, so I gave it to MMTS's boys....

 

[mike]

loooking forward to seeing the progress, great work

 

[Chris]

You OK for reference piccy Jon, took loads of this one at Ilfeld a couple of years ago.

 

[dunnyrail]

Many thanks espetialy Chris. More pictures are always welcome, I have quite a few of my own. But not many with Harz detail. Though my Project will come out much simpler, I do not think this matters too much as they will be largely hidden on the inside by the Wagons that are laded on them. Yes they will always be loaded and chained on too.

PROGRESS
Here is the state of play on Wagon No.1 as of just now. Basically a running Chassis.



Also I am looking for Emily Coach Wheels for the SG Wagons (6 axles worth or 2 Coachescif you like), as James used. I have requested them in the wants section.

JonD

 

[Chris]

Here you go Jon, this should keep you quiet for a while

 

[Chris]

And a couple more

 

[dunnyrail]

Re: Rollwagenzug - Another Roll Wagon Project. This time a Short Trains Worth.

Chris, many many thanks lots of yummy detail for me to go on here. All of my closeups are of 75MM ones at Rungen, Zittau and The Dresden Lines. So these of the Harz ones are just what I needed. The main point for me is that the Bogies are Inside Framed. I was going to fake up outside fames. Not needed now. Loads of work saved.

Just looking at your Pictures makes me realise how pathetic my efforts are going to be. The construction of the Prototype is so (struggling for the word at 0400 on a sleepless night) well massive will have to do. But at least my U shape Channel works well for the Metre Gauge ones. Still not put off though. Will do as much of the Detail as I can. Will leave all this complex Detail till I have 3 frames and Rolling Chassis made up. With the changeable Weather that should be pretty soon.
JonD

 

[stockers]

A few more reference picture for you Jon.

 

[stockers]

.

 

[dunnyrail]

Stockers, my cup runneth over many thanks again. It is good to see some that are not all rusted up as well. The last time I was at the Broken there was one up there with a Tank Wagon on it. Must dig that one out to add to my Library. I have copied all yours onto the iPad, it sits on the workbench while I am making them. Great resource for Scratch Building the iPad.
JonD

 

[stockers]

 

[dunnyrail]

That nice Mr Stockers is certainly keeping me well supplied with Prototype Info Pictures. Many thanks again.

There has been some more progress today and a Big Box arrived with my third Wagon. It is one of the Piko Opens. As these come with Twin Buffers I deduced that one would be a nice change from the two LGB Opens that I have. It is a little bit shorter and makes a nice variation.

BATCH PRODUCTION
Having got one Wagon in near running condition I decided that it would make sense to do the next two at the same time. Having got measurements to go from I could cut enough parts to supply all the bits. So first thing this morning I was busy cutting plasticard in to 10mm and 15mm Strips. Last night I made up enough U Channel for the rest of the fleet. So this evening I glued up two more frames as shown below.

Having got the Piko Wagon from Dragon this morning, I must say their service is excellent. I decided to see if it would be possible to use the wheels on this for 63mm Back To Back. With a little faffing it was and these Wheels are somewhat larger than the LGB ones. So if no Emily ones come to light I may just use these if I can get another two sets. The picture below shows what I have bodged. Fortunately the Axle Guards just pull out so my Brass Tube Axle Extensions work quite well. In the meantime I have also Rusted Up the Wheels with Tamiya Acrylic.

Below are the 3 Wagons that I will be using. LGB RHB Open, DB Open and the Piko DR Open. I will need to sort out some transfers for the RHB Wagon. This will probably also be a DR one.



That is the State of Play as of this evening. After the rest of the frames have been made up with Bogies attached, I will start work on some kind of Strengthening. I do not relish the thought of the Plasticard Wagons returning to their base bits in Service. Initial thought are for some T shaped Metal Parts to be Bolted onto the frames and to be used for the Coupling. All being connected to the Bogie Skrews for Strength.

All the pictures appear to show the usual Modeling Carnage in the Workshop.
JonD

 

[dunnyrail]

PARTS and BATCH PRODUCTION
Well I got a good start on Projects today. The Rollwagens have been getting a lot of attention. In between other jobs like Varnish drying I was able to Batch Produce a load of parts for the remaining 2 Wagons. This Picture shows the main parts used in the Construction other than the Main Frame. Not sure that the lettering is large enough so it is left to right:-
10mm
15mm
15mm
8mm
Cut Outs x 15mm
You should be able to make out where the parts go from the Constructed Rollwagen.


STRENGTHENING AND COUPLING
As I indicated in yesterdays post, I wanted to beef up the construction somewhat. So today I made a start on the T Shaped Strengthening Cross Member. The next picture shows what I bodgeled out of Brass. The U Channel will form the Coupling between Vehicles and or the Locomotive. Now I think that some of you may think that this is overkill. However remember that there will be 3 of these Wagons with 3 Lumpy Wagons sitting on them plus a G Scale Van for the Guard. No not a specific Guards Van as such, but the Harz equivalent which appears to be a Standard Goods Van with a Window Hole in each end. So it gives me satisfaction to know that the strengthening is in there.



The next picture shows it in place and the final one after the Bogie has been re- engineered to take an 8 BA Skrew. 2 10BA Skrews secure the Bent T piece to the Chassis. This should be all pretty robust now. I am confident that there will be no returning to base Plasticard when the ensomble trundles round the Garden pulled by either a 2-10-2t or the Harz Kamel.



The final picture shows the now modified Rollwagon as of close of play today. As you can see the strengthening will be pretty well invisible.



The Workbench is particularly untidy this Evening. Metal Work has upped the anti of Tools and Parts somewhat.

JonD

 

[PhilP]

Looks perfectly tidy to me..?
You can still see the pattern on the cutting mat after all!

 

[trammayo]

Enjoying reading this thread John. I think your strengthening idea is very sound indeed.

 

[Dtsteam]

Same here - I really like the batch production shot. To me, when you see the bits broken down like that the whole thing becomes much more achievable.

 

[dunnyrail]

Thanks again for your flattering comments. Glad that my Pictures help to explain things.

Today has been a nice day weather wise so Garden Projects took priority till the light went. But after then I have made good progress on the other 2 Rollwagens. In fact the batch production of parts has paid dividends it terms of speed of work. Looks like that nice Mr Ford may have been on to something.

BOGIE FITTING
I have been using the Dickie Bogie Pins cut down as the Inside Bearing Surfaces for the Bogies as they were on the Dickie Wagons when bought. They have been cut down to be the depth of the Bogies plus a smidgen. I also originally used the Dickie Securing Screw, but surmised that just screwed into a bit of 20 thou Plasticard the bogies life security would not be long. Thus I have bodgled up a system with 8ba Skrews and 3 Washers on the underside to hold the Bogie in place. The first 2 pics show this and the Rubbing Plates that have been made up for the bogie to sit on, plus a Bogie secured in place. It now sits on 3 points, the Centre Pin and 2 Rubbing Plates. An 8ba Nut with Washer teporary secures the bogie in place at the top.



BODGED 63mm WHEEL SETS and a PLEA FOR PARTS
As I have thus far had no luck with Emily Wheels on my plea, I have decided for the time being to use the original LGB Wheels. These have been pulled out on their Axles to the 63mm Back To Back and just wedged into the Axle Guards. The LGB Wheel and Coupling Units have been removed for theft of the Brakes to cosmetically complete the SG Wagons. I am also one set of SG Buffers missing from either a 43880 or 45880 to complete 1 of the Wagons. I have separately made a plea for these parts with a Picture to show what I need to acquire. If you can help please PM me.

Final picture shows the 3 Wagons loaded with SG ones. What is very apparent is that the one that still has Dickie Wheels sits somewhat higher. It will not be so noticeable in the Train, but I must get that last set of Wheels ordered from Ivan.

Final Picture also shows 2 of the leftover Dickie Wagons. They will never run again with their original Running Gear. RIP Dickie Wagons, you have served your purpose.
JonD