Piko BR80 motor hum — is it normal?

[Bombastic]

Hi all,

I just picked up a second hand Piko BR80 and was testing it out on my layout this morning. It's a beautiful little model in pristine condition, and based on the pickups it looks to have been used a bit but not heavily. It's my first non-LGB locomotive.

However, I noticed that it runs very differently from my other locos. It runs well enough but requires nearly full power to fire up and move, and when it does move it's on the slow side. More concerning is the loud, constant hum it makes when there is power. The overall impression it gives off is that the train is barely getting enough power and the motor is straining to run.

And yet my transformer, a Tech II Locomotion 2500, works perfectly with all my LGB locomotives. None of them act this way, and I have no reason to think that there is any actual power issue.

Is this normal for a Piko locomotive? Or does this sound like there is an issue with it (or my setup)?

 

[Gizzy]

Not heard of your controller before. I see it's a US bit of kit.

Is it PWM?

I'm not sure PIKO motors work on PWM....

 

[Bombastic]

Not heard of your controller before. I see it's a US bit of kit.

Is it PWM?

I'm not sure PIKO motors work on PWM....

Good point. I'm not particularly familiar with PWM and the issues with it, but I think my controller may be PWM and I know that my backup throttle (a G Scale Graphics throttle) definitely is. If Piko doesn't play well with PWM, that is likely the issue.

 

[Cranford]

Hi all,

I just picked up a second hand Piko BR80 and was testing it out on my layout this morning. It's a beautiful little model in pristine condition, and based on the pickups it looks to have been used a bit but not heavily. It's my first non-LGB locomotive.

However, I noticed that it runs very differently from my other locos. It runs well enough but requires nearly full power to fire up and move, and when it does move it's on the slow side. More concerning is the loud, constant hum it makes when there is power. The overall impression it gives off is that the train is barely getting enough power and the motor is straining to run.

And yet my transformer, a Tech II Locomotion 2500, works perfectly with all my LGB locomotives. None of them act this way, and I have no reason to think that there is any actual power issue.

Is this normal for a Piko locomotive? Or does this sound like there is an issue with it (or my setup)?

It sounds as if it may have a decoder fitted, in which case they do not like PWM, can you check this.? I have a number of Piko locos and all ran ok, but didn't have PWM

 

[Bombastic]

Interesting point about a DCC decoder. Neither the seller nor the train box said anything anywhere about this being fitted with DCC, and at the price I got it for I was expecting the basic version. So I took it apart to check. And although I have absolutely zero experience with DCC, that sure looks a lot like a Piko decoder to me. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

So assuming that is a DCC decoder, what on earth do I need to do to get rid of it so it will run on my old system? I can hardly find any discussion online about how to add the DCC decoder to the BR80, let alone instructions for how to remove it.

I just wanted a basic DC train, man... go figure I'd accidentally end up with the fancy DCC/sound/smoke version that I'm going to have to rip apart...

 

[Software Tools]

And yet my transformer, a Tech II Locomotion 2500, works perfectly with all my LGB locomotives.

That is a MRC manufactured controller and uses PWM (pulse width modulation) for control. Overall energy capability is 16VA (~16W) which just about enough to run a G scale loco with a single motor.... which is probably why you are getting the performance you are reporting. Even the base level Piko DC controller has a higher energy rating (~35W) than the Tech II.

It seems to me that your power supply is a least part of the issue.

 

[Bombastic]

That is a MRC manufactured controller and uses PWM (pulse width modulation) for control. Overall energy capability is 16VA (~16W) which just about enough to run a G scale loco with a single motor.... which is probably why you are getting the performance you are reporting. Even the base level Piko DC controller has a higher energy rating (~35W) than the Tech II.

It seems to me that your power supply is a least part of the issue.

This could be. To be fair to the controller, I do routinely power multiple locomotives simultaneously with it, including bigger locos than this Piko. So it's no slouch! But that is lower wattage than I realized it has.

I've also got a G Scale Graphics 10 Amp controller (also PWM) which causes the same issues for the Piko. I don't know what the wattage is on that, but I thought it was more powerful than the Tech 2.

 

[dunnyrail]

Interesting point about a DCC decoder. Neither the seller nor the train box said anything anywhere about this being fitted with DCC, and at the price I got it for I was expecting the basic version. So I took it apart to check. And although I have absolutely zero experience with DCC, that sure looks a lot like a Piko decoder to me. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

So assuming that is a DCC decoder, what on earth do I need to do to get rid of it so it will run on my old system? I can hardly find any discussion online about how to add the DCC decoder to the BR80, let alone instructions for how to remove it.

I just wanted a basic DC train, man... go figure I'd accidentally end up with the fancy DCC/sound/smoke version that I'm going to have to rip apart...

Certainly looks like someone has been at this those yellow wires look like after sales add on to me. Not sure if it is a decoder but could be, can you post a picture of the other ends contacts please. A simple solution would be to just join the track wires to the motor, you could use a screw 4 contact board for this. You would not have lights but once you have things working you could add the lights to those motor contacts, adding Diodes to get lights working directionally.

 

[PhilP]

Your loco will need about 6V to it before the decoder will come to life..

If you look at the printing on the ends of the decoder, you should be able to work out where power comes in from the track, and the connections to the motor.
If you connect these together, you can convert back to analogue for the motor.

Connecting the lights back up, could be more problematic? - They could be bulbs, or they could be LEDs.
Bulbs may well be rated at a lot less than track voltage, and LEDs will require wiring in the correct polarity and the fitting of suitable series resistors.

Not quite so simple, if you are not confident with this sort of thing.

PhilP

 

[pugwash]

If it were me I would sell on the DCC loco and then buy a DC version. I used to have a DC Piko BR 80 that I ran on 1 amp and 5 amp Gaugemaster transformer / controllers with no problem - and definitely no humming. I now have a HO DCC setup (it will be one day) and the Roco Z21 puts out quite a bit of power BUT it is written over and over again do not put DC and DCC on the wrong system or damage will occur.

 

[TempLayout]

A quick search for "Piko BR90 decoder" led me to this: Piko 36125 Smart Decoder 4.1 G Scale which looks almost identical to the board in your loco. The "almost identical" might hint to this note on that Piko Product Webpage: NOTE: 36125 replaces the older 36122 Decoder.

The little circuit board off the the right in the photo you posted has to be the Piko Sound Kit. It looks identical to a number of Piko Sound kit photos I see for smaller scales like this:


I don't really see much in the way of G scale photos of the sound kit ON THAT SIDE of the circuit board... they mostly show the other side like this: Piko #36193 Sound kit for BR 80 (Requires Decoder)

Piko Instructions for that Sound Kit are attached to this post.

I would say it's a safe bet that your loco has the "upgrade" DCC board OR the previous version 36122. Not necessarily a bad thing to have as it should run on DC just fine. More than likely the previous owner had changed CV settings for starting voltage... max speed... those sorts of things. The seller of the loco probably was not aware that it had the decoder installed.

The issue your going to have now is getting it to work well for your layout. I don't know about just bypassing the decoder. I suppose that would work, but even DC locos have circuit boards in them for doing the various electrical things that need doing for smoke, lights, and so on. Same with the Piko locos. My DC Piko had a board in it that looked like a decoder, but it's not. When I converted it to DCC, the new decoder REPLACED the DC board. The were nearly identical in size/form factor. So essentially, you are "missing" the DC circuit board that came factory installed on the loco. Not THAT big of an issue for you as, again, it should work fine on DC. It's just a hassle since it appears to have custom settings that need adjustment.

To reset the decoder or change any settings, you'll unfortunately need to put it on a DCC setup of some sort. Perhaps ask a local shop or Model Railroad club to see if someone can help you out with getting what needs doing done.

Here is the manual for your decoder: Piko 36125 Manual in German as well as the sound kit: Piko Sound Kit for BR 80 Manual and CV List in German unfortunately (if you don't know German) they're all in German and all I've been able to find versions in English as of yet. However it's 2024. Let's try Google Translate.

This may work. A cursory look over and the translations seem relatively on par with English Piko instruction manuals I have. Attached to this post are pdfs that Google Translate gave back after I gave it the original German files. Just keep in mind that your decoder may be one of two versions. What the differences are, I am not sure, but I would assume the differences are minor. More than likely they are pretty spot on and if not, one heck of a lot closer than just staring at the circuit boards not knowing what they are. My guess would be the differences are just software updates, or different suppliers for the capacitors or something... minor design tweaks.


While it might be a bit of a headache. Really, you probably got a great deal. Little jealous here actually, haha. My son wants some DCC German Steam Locos. The only German Steamer I've got is what I received as a child for my birthday, a DC LGB 2076D. It still runs like a dream even if it is a tiny bit beat up cosmetically. It's still a treasure to us.

 

[Bombastic]

A quick search for "Piko BR90 decoder" led me to this: Piko 36125 Smart Decoder 4.1 G Scale which looks almost identical to the board in your loco. The "almost identical" might hint to this note on that Piko Product Webpage: NOTE: 36125 replaces the older 36122 Decoder.

The little circuit board off the the right in the photo you posted has to be the Piko Sound Kit. It looks identical to a number of Piko Sound kit photos I see for smaller scales like this:
View attachment 325071

I don't really see much in the way of G scale photos of the sound kit ON THAT SIDE of the circuit board... they mostly show the other side like this: Piko #36193 Sound kit for BR 80 (Requires Decoder)
View attachment 325068
Piko Instructions for that Sound Kit are attached to this post.

I would say it's a safe bet that your loco has the "upgrade" DCC board OR the previous version 36122. Not necessarily a bad thing to have as it should run on DC just fine. More than likely the previous owner had changed CV settings for starting voltage... max speed... those sorts of things. The seller of the loco probably was not aware that it had the decoder installed.

The issue your going to have now is getting it to work well for your layout. I don't know about just bypassing the decoder. I suppose that would work, but even DC locos have circuit boards in them for doing the various electrical things that need doing for smoke, lights, and so on. Same with the Piko locos. My DC Piko had a board in it that looked like a decoder, but it's not. When I converted it to DCC, the new decoder REPLACED the DC board. The were nearly identical in size/form factor. So essentially, you are "missing" the DC circuit board that came factory installed on the loco. Not THAT big of an issue for you as, again, it should work fine on DC. It's just a hassle since it appears to have custom settings that need adjustment.

To reset the decoder or change any settings, you'll unfortunately need to put it on a DCC setup of some sort. Perhaps ask a local shop or Model Railroad club to see if someone can help you out with getting what needs doing done.

Here is the manual for your decoder: Piko 36125 Manual in German as well as the sound kit: Piko Sound Kit for BR 80 Manual and CV List in German unfortunately (if you don't know German) they're all in German and all I've been able to find versions in English as of yet. However it's 2024. Let's try Google Translate.

This may work. A cursory look over and the translations seem relatively on par with English Piko instruction manuals I have. Attached to this post are pdfs that Google Translate gave back after I gave it the original German files. Just keep in mind that your decoder may be one of two versions. What the differences are, I am not sure, but I would assume the differences are minor. More than likely they are pretty spot on and if not, one heck of a lot closer than just staring at the circuit boards not knowing what they are. My guess would be the differences are just software updates, or different suppliers for the capacitors or something... minor design tweaks.


While it might be a bit of a headache. Really, you probably got a great deal. Little jealous here actually, haha. My son wants some DCC German Steam Locos. The only German Steamer I've got is what I received as a child for my birthday, a DC LGB 2076D. It still runs like a dream even if it is a tiny bit beat up cosmetically. It's still a treasure to us.

This is extremely helpful, thank you!