NEW...WINDOWS 10

[Ian_S]

M'Soft aren't imposing an upgrade on you - not yet anyway - Win7 security updates will continue to Jan 14 2020 - So you have another 4 years.

I'm not going to get drawn into an argument - You are entitled to your opinion
Not sure what percentage of the 53 million installs are users that are not "happy" with W10 - but as a percentage I guess its pretty small - otherwise MS would be out of business - and I can't see that happening in the next few years because users are not "happy" with the OS MS are supplying.

No further comments from me on this subject

 

[Trabant Dave]

As you say Ian we all have an opinion on this - and hey! We are not arguing; merely discussing the issue like grown-ups! Healthy and considered debate is good!

I'd be the first to agree that most users ARE happy (up to a point) with Win10, but for those who don't want it for whatever reason should not be continually pestered to participate; that is one of my biggest gripes as someone who exercises more autonomy over my equipment than perhaps your average domestic user does.

There's also a growing number of manufacturers of hardware too who make it increasingly hard for users to have control of their systems, for example by swapping out components; the current Alienware laptop range has soldered CPU and GPU; I have one of the last of the 'user-upgradeable' models and have gone from a mid-range CPU to the fastest possible Extreme version; only possible for me because the price of that chip dropped dramatically when superseded as the flagship model. I can only assume the reasoning behind this move is that the majority of users are happy to run in the out-of-the-box condition, and it's 'safer' for manufacturers to not allow users to mod the systems with the potential for instability that is introduced by such mods. And Microsoft probably consider the Win10 forced update regime in a similar vein.

My problem is I want to simply opt-out of the whole Win10 thing and MS are making it very difficult to do this with the covert installation of opaque updates which have nothing to do with maintaining the integrity of the installed OS (in my case Win7) but are at best 'nudging' users into accepting Win10 and at worst forcing it upon users. The files required to install Win10 are then downloaded to the users drive without user knowledge, and for those on a limited data plan that 3gb could be a huge chunk of their monthly allowance.

I have a number of 'legacy' programmes that other users have simply not been able to run under Win10 for which there are no modern equivalents and have had roll back to Win7 to utilise. I have spent a huge amount of my time creating user-content for one programme and am reluctant to 'walk away' from all that blood sweat and tears !!

IF Win10 was backwards-compatible with ALL these progs and IF I could maintain the same level of control I have over Win7, I'd not be so anti; but I do take exception to the continual pressure from MS to accept Win10 even after having rejected it.

And I welcome comments on my stance from you Ian and from all other member here, sliced or unsliced bread users. Unsurprisingly I bake my own,,,,,,,,

 

[G-force1]

I'm watching/listening intently to this thread. My recent desktop P.C. purchase was deliberately chosen with W7/64 Pro because free W10 was NOT an option, now after some recent updates it suddenly is.

My thoughts run along the lines (and I include myself mostly in this) that 99% of users just don't know any better than to follow the 'crowd' and don't care as long as it works. I further think that it is yet another money making ploy by M.S. (even though free now) and that they will introduce updates that will make it essential that you pay an annual leasing charge, like Norton do, and will switch you off if you don't pay up. After all this is supposed to be the last upgrade of Windows, so where else are they going to make their billions . . . . . ?

But then I'm just an old cynic.

 

[Beddhist]

I've been running Windows updates in manual mode for years. M$ now want to force me to change: I no longer get update notifications. All I have is a msg in Action Centre to change update settings. I leave them on manual and now have to remember myself to run Windows update.

I think Win7 will be my last version, although I run a lot of Win only programs. I still have an XP PC.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I agree with Ian...

And I have been using Windows since Windows 1.0, and Dos 1.0.

Get a copy of Start10 (successor to Start8) that gives you your old menu back: http://www.stardock.com/products/start10/

Windows has been using telemetry since Windows 7, and it's just becoming news now, it is NOT new in Windows 10, there is a bit more of it, but as opposed to windows 7, you have more control in Windows 10.

The "obsoleting" of various video cards has happened at EVERY major update to windows since we moved from Windows NT 3.51, to Windows NT 4.0, to windows 2000 (Windows 5), to Vista (Windows 6), to Windows 7, 8 and 10 (Windows 9 was renamed to Windows 10). Again this is not new.

You can also stop ANY windows update in windows 10 with a utility freely available from Microsoft.

I left Cortana on on a few computers, turned it off elsewhere.

Also realize that support for Windows 7 will go away pretty quickly and your free update to 10 will expire this July. Since you have Windows 7 Ultimate, it can sometimes be a pain on certain computers.

Read my page on win 10: http://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=615&Itemid=775


Greg

 

[Trabant Dave]

I've gotten rid of ALL telemetry on Win7 too Greg, sometime ago. I truly don't care that the Win10 update is free; if I wanted to use Win10 that much I'd be prepared to pay for it!

I'm very happy with Win7, it does not require me to download third-party software to get the Windows 7 start menu back, because it IS Windows 7! I will continue to do everything necessary to prevent Win10 being imposed on me, regardless of what others may perceive as the advantages of Win10. I have trust issues with MS over their repeated unwelcome downloading of so-called 'updates' that I have repeatedly hidden, only for MS to re-release them - a prime example being the KB3035583 which as you know is the GWX module that causes the nagging from the systray. Their behaviour has not addressed the trust issue in fact the regular incursions they attempt have made things worse.

As a sign of good faith MS should issue a KB patch that allows one to choose not have Win10 or associated files ever being downloaded! I'd install that.....

 

[PhilP]

Let my Pc get on with the W10 update.. It failed miserably. Rolled back to W7, but reckon it is now less stable than it was.
I have much less free-space than before, so assume all the W10 stuf is floating about somewhere on the drive?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

As I mentioned, there is a package that can permanently hide/stop selected updates.

PhilP: when your W10 update failed (next time use my tips), it restored your computer EXACTLY as it was before because it did a complete backup.

And like Ian, that's my last post on the subject, there are people that just will never be convinced that this is really little different than the other major upgrades, I've heard this hand wringing with every major release. The reality is that unless you can freeze the rest of the world and internet in time, you will eventually have no choice or your "excursions" will be limited and also use of current software.

You guys need to meet Dave Goodson ,

Over and out.

 

[trammayo]

I am not a great fan of Windows 10 and, yes, the world moves on. The problem with a lot of people like myself is Cognitive Dissonance - being out of one's comfort zone (what you actually see and what your subconscious would rather see).

Windows in itself is quite a good operating system but the problem lies in how you choose to set it up. If you are a complete numpty when it come computers (that's me) or other digital technology (and that's me), the you don't stand a snowball in hell's chance of getting it right!

For me, the PC is a tool. When it comes down to tools, I know that Estwing hammers are superior to Stanley and I makes my choice according to my pension or other factors. Hand tools might be simple, but there is a correct way to hold a hammer and a correct way to strike with it.

I suppose that I might have had problems with XP when I first started using it but, if I did, I soon got used to it. I could do many things with it but even then it was a learning curve. As the world moves on, I'm moving in the twilight. I'm not the sort of person who is umbilically tied to the internet, catch-up TV, Facebook or whatever. I don't want an all-singing, all-dancing thingy that might microwave my meal, or do the laundry - I just want a PC that is a useful tool for creating things or a mobile that is purely a 'phone and to be able to use it/them..

That's my rant over.

And I admire the likes of Greg and Ian who know what they are doing - just wish that I did!

 

[PhilP]

Greg:
Will look to your notes, but fear it is because I have a NFR (Action pack, as it was called over here) version of Windows 7.

??Who is Dave Goodson??

 

[Ian_S]

Think you've got it in a nutshell there Mick - There are millions of PC users out there who just want a PC that you turn on - and it just "works".
In my mind this is what M/Soft are doing with W10 - making the PC into "white goods"

I used to service my own cars - I lift the bonnet now and all I can really do is top up the windscreen washer bottle, check the oil and coolant levels and that's about it........

If I want to "tinker" with a computer - I use my Linux Mint PC or one of my Raspberry PI's (superb cheap micro computer)

 

[PhilP]

The problem with the Raspberry PI, is it does not take well to being microwaved, and having cream poured on it..

 

[Trabant Dave]

Quote Ian: "I used to service my own cars - I lift the bonnet now and all I can really do is top up the windscreen washer bottle, check the oil and coolant levels and that's about it........"

I got peeved at being rumped £104 by a main dealer merely to tell me they needed to replace 'x' and if that didn't work they would replace 'y', so I went out and bought a diagnostic tool specific to my car. Therein lies one particular problem as the software doesn't have full functionality in Win10 and is a swine to get running at all. Why put myself through all that for nothing?

I just want to make it clear that I am not a complete Luddite - If and when the compatibility issues with Diagnostic and legacy software are completely resolved I will install Win10 to the netbook that the diagnostic stuff is on. But only on that netbook. And sanitised of telemetry, spying etc etc. Not that that matters because it is not connected to the Internet. Ever.

At the moment I can see no compelling reason to install it on my Alienware, and many reasons not to, that I highlighted a while back, to do with content I created for a prog that resolutely refuses to run under 10......

I also found this which may amuse you and/or scare you.... http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/#12280e432f4a

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on Win10 chaps, so I'm going to potter off and fire up Caradoc

 

[PhilP]

Caradoc?

What flavour of Linux is that??

 

[G-force1]

It's all done "to improve the user experience". If my "user experience" is already everything that I want (and more), how can it possibly be improved?

Spying is spying no matter what level. Google maps wants to know my location. WHY? My IP address is more than sufficient. It wont change the map I want to look at, one little bit. It is pure data collection and I won't play where I can possibly avoid it.

 

[PhilP]

It's all done "to improve the user experience". If my "user experience" is already everything that I want (and more), how can it possibly be improved?

Spying is spying no matter what level. Google maps wants to know my location. WHY? My IP address is more than sufficient. It wont change the map I want to look at, one little bit. It is pure data collection and I won't play where I can possibly avoid it.

Your IP address is associated with the location of your ISP, so in my case Sheffield..
At least it is far enough away for a drone-strike to miss!

If you are trying to find a restaurant, it might be a good idea if Google Maps knows where you are??

All this disclosure should be at your choice though..

 

[G-force1]

It wouldn't make any difference to finding a restaurant in say Bristol, which would be a more likely necessity from Stoke. I don't like all this data of mine flying about who knows where, it's my business, not that of anybody I don't want to share it with. It's been proved many times that none of this stuff is truly secure. The strength of any chain is only that of the weakest link.

As I said before, I'm just an old cynic, and getting cynicier rather than older.

 

[Beddhist]

Ah, the secret is out: becoming more cynical stops the ageing process!

 

[Trabant Dave]

PhilP to the naughty step with you......




Voila! Meet Caradoc Gilly, no artificial additives there!

 

[Trabant Dave]

I can't help thinking that no-one in business give something away for nothing, there is always a pay-back in some way, and with W10 the deal seems to be that you initially got the teaser 'Microsoft to give Windows 10 away for nothing' which drew a lot of folk in on the basis of it being 'so very free and so upgradey you can't afford to miss it, and it's a time-limited offer.'

And if that wasn't enough to lure you in, the subterfuge began; background downloads, nagging, hidden updates rejected by users being unhidden by MS. That probably drew a few more in.

Then scare tactics - 'Windows 7/8/XP has security issues, to solve them you MUST accept the offer of FREE Windows 10 because in 2020/2023 we will no longer support your mouldy old version and your PC is thus AT RISK!!!!!' More people stop resisting, leaving only the resolute, the cranky and downright cynical to be mocked for not toeing the line and allowing the 'upgrade' to take place - I'm started to feel like the last human alive in 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers' being hunted by the Pod People........................

And why are they so insistent that you accept their magnanimous 'Once-in-a-lifetime amazing FREE offer'? Because they gain something valuable. Your data - preferences, interests, shopping patterns etc. It may well be anonymized, or not. But that friends is the cost to you of the allegedly free Windows 10 'upgrade' And why is your data so valuable? Because it can be sold to companies and used to target advertising, sold to companies who analyse data for any one of a hundred reasons.

Well, they probably WILL get us in the end, I'll fire up my laptop one morning and it will have 'upgraded' itself to Windows 10 Bodysnatcher Edition with no user input at all...........

PS; I think my wife is one of the Pod People; she has a MacBook.