MFX and other digital systems

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Is the new MFX system by LGB compatible with Massoth and indeed MTS. For example fin bought a loco with an MFX decoder can I just run it on my dad's Massoth and my MTS?

 

[ntpntpntp]

MFX itself isn't compatible with DCC, but the decoders being fitted by Marklin recognise both protocols.

I have no direct experience, but people have reported a few "niggles" with the new decoders on DCC, with work-arounds such as make sure you run the loco on DCC default address 3 when you first receive it *before* attempting any programming. It seems to "set up" the decoder to expect DCC.

With older MTS you may find you can't get to all the functions supported by the decoder.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Cheers. Don't think no will be buying any LGB models with MFX decoders then, hope it does not segregate the hobby even more. That was the joy of garden railways having meets etc and running others locos.

 

[idlemarvel]

I don't think it is as black as all that. In some ways it's a pity Maerklin are going their own way but I suppose if they want to innovate they have to go beyond the standard. Plus they have their huge HO customer base to think of (huge compared to their LGB business). Some of the features in MFX look quite nifty, but as long as they provide a DCC option I'll be happy. I have a Lenz command station and at least one Maerklin (Trix) decoder that came prefitted in an LGB V100 and they work quite happily together.

 

[Neil Robinson]

Cheers. Don't think no will be buying any LGB models with MFX decoders then, hope it does not segregate the hobby even more. That was the joy of garden railways having meets etc and running others locos.

I think some LGB locos are/will be Marklin decoder fitted as standard but don't let this put you off.
I have no personal experience so please confirm the following with someone who has. You can disable the mfx part of the decoder and still run DCC and DC(analogue) by doing the following.
Run the loco on DCC address 3 to set up as mentioned in an earlier post.
Change CV 50 from 10 to 2. That's it unless anyone knows otherwise.

 

[idlemarvel]

To expand on the above, CV50 is one of those values set bit by bit.
bit 0 (decimal 1 or 0) is analog AC on or off
bit 1 (decimal 2 or 0) is analog DC on or off
bit 2 (decimal 4 or 0) is MM (Motorola) on or off
bit 3 (decimal 8 or 0) is mfx on or off
So changing from 10 to 2 means turning mfx=off (leaving analog DC=on)
DCC is then the default protocol, because mfx is off.
Setting it to 0 would turn off analog DC as well, so DCC only.
Ref www.maerklin.de/fileadmin/media/service/technische_informationen/Umruestdecoder_mLD-mSD_CV-Liste_DCC.pdf (German)

 

[Beddhist]

So if you have an mfx layout visitors cannot run DCC locos?

 

[Lobethalbahn2]

So if you have an mfx layout visitors cannot run DCC locos?

My understanding is that the Märklin MFX Central Station CS2/CS3 is multi-protocol and will run MFX or DCC chipped locos as it recognises the type of chip fitted. It just offers some other features on top of the regular DCC when using MFX chips.

 

[Zerogee]

That's how I understand it too.... the CS2/CS3 MFX system will run any DCC chipped loco in exactly the same way as any other DCC control system will, and equally any MFX-chipped loco will run on any (modern) DCC control system. However, if you are running an MFX-chipped loco on an MFX control system then you get the extra features like not having to input all the loco details manually (as you currently have to do when adding a new DCC loco to your roster on a DCC control system) - the MFX CS recognises the chip in the MFX loco and "talks" to it, so you don't even have to worry about loco addresses.

Jon.

 

[MTheStrong]

That's how I understand it too.... the CS2/CS3 MFX system will run any DCC chipped loco in exactly the same way as any other DCC control system will, and equally any MFX-chipped loco will run on any (modern) DCC control system. However, if you are running an MFX-chipped loco on an MFX control system then you get the extra features like not having to input all the loco details manually (as you currently have to do when adding a new DCC loco to your roster on a DCC control system) - the MFX CS recognises the chip in the MFX loco and "talks" to it, so you don't even have to worry about loco addresses.

Jon.

Hi Jon,

Your comments above are absolutely spot on. My main reason for initially purchasing the CS2 was the fact that the CS instantly recognised that a loco had an MFX chip and that you did not have to input an address for it. I am shortly upgrading to the CS3 which has the ability, amongst other things, to use 32 functions. I am not sure that I need that many but it seems that this is the way that manufacturers are going in Germany.

Martin

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

After my initial moaning about MFX I am sort of thinking about renewing my aging MTS system. What is the actual equipment I would need and a likely price to get the MFX system? Also I have notice a track plan display on the control unit, what purpose does this serve? And is it wireless to enable walking around the garden?

 

[MTheStrong]

After my initial moaning about MFX I am sort of thinking about renewing my aging MTS system. What is the actual equipment I would need and a likely price to get the MFX system? Also I have notice a track plan display on the control unit, what purpose does this serve? And is it wireless to enable walking around the garden?

Hi,
The basic equipment you need to get started is the CS and power supply.

A second hand CS2 can be found on German Ebay for Eur350. You will need a power supply 60101 100VA ata cost of Eur80. For wireless operation you need a mini router and a smartphone (apple or android) with the Maerklin App (about Eur10). There are no dedicated wireless handsets. There are 2 controllers on the CS. The track plan display that you refer to allows you to control points, signals, uncouplers etc as well as being able to automatically set routes. For these functions you need your signals, points etc to be connected to a decoder such as the LGB55025 or Massoth 8156001.

Martin

 

[PhilP]

Do get to see the Marklin CS before you jump in..
It is not really 'garden friendly'. - No wireless without extra kit (you are more or less on your own with this). Not as robust as it could be. - Weather, both wet and bright sun (display).
YMMV or course.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Having to faff about to make it wireless puts me off right away. Let me guess, the cable will be about 1m long too? Is the wireless thing something that could be done afterwards.....? Mini routers, I am not familiar with what this means?

 

[PhilP]

Having to faff about to make it wireless puts me off right away. Let me guess, the cable will be about 1m long too? Is the wireless thing something that could be done afterwards.....? Mini routers, I am not familiar with what this means?

You can run a l-o-n-g cable to it.. But 'everything' connects to the CS, which is also the controller. - Think the old Etch-a-Sketch kids toy!

'Wireless mini-router' is similar to the thing that gives you your Broadband Internet (not the big, flashy BT thing), the little white / beige box with flashing lights..
Then you need a smart phone, or tablet(?) to run the 'app' on to talk to the dang-thang.

So for something that usually has power-in, power to track (perhaps a programming track) and a bus-cable to wireless / Navigator, you soon end up with a rats-nest of wiring..


You don't need the wireless part to start with, and if you have a seat in a conservatory, from which you can control everything, then you are fine..
If you are a wander round the garden / line person, you do not really want to have to 'leg-it' back to the house if you need to switch off..

I (personally) think the Marklin CS is more suited to an indoor layout, where the controller would (traditionally) be in a static position.

Find someone who has one, Or model shop where they have one on demonstration.. You may love it.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Think a demo with Paul at PS is in order at York.

 

[PhilP]

Think a demo with Paul at PS is in order at York.

Ask if you can knock the CS off the layout / low-wall onto the concrete!!

IMHO, of course..

 

[ntpntpntp]

Although I don't own one, the Massoth system with wireless Navigator does seem one of the best all-round solutions to operating garden lines under DCC. There's no denying you do end up wanting to wander round the garden while you run trains.

I have an NCE PowerPro 10 amp DCC system. I really love it as a system, I find the throttles easy and comfortable to use. it's been around for many years and is "proven". Originally the wireless option wasn't legal for the UK but I believe that situation has now changed, so if/when I resurrect G scale I'll no doubt go wireless.

A couple of other things I like about the NCE system are;
a) it interfaces with JMRI for computer control and decoder programming (Massoth doesn't though there are alternative solutions)
b) NCE have a wonderful little unit called a MiniPanel which is basically a programmable interface with bunch of about 30 switch inputs. You can write macros to detect activity on the inputs and do all sorts of clever things to detect and control loco movements, track route selection etc. I simply use it to translate physical buttons on a "proper" layout control panel and to throw the DCC controlled points. I've even had a little multi-button radio-remote operating the same MiniPanel inputs via relays. I find this so much better than remembering and punching in accessory decoder addresses on the throttle to throw points.

I experimented with JMRI and a mini laptop to operate the layout over WiFi in the garden (throttles and points). It worked well enough but to be honest it wasn't as user-friendly as using the NCE throttle and the real physical control panel. Difficult to view the screen for one thing, and using the mouse to control locos and throw points was cumbersome.

I'm not really keen on these modern DCC systems with displays and using phones/iPads as throttles - they're clever (and I like clever!) but just not a "tactile" operating experience, which counts for a lot in my opinion

 

[stockers]

After my initial moaning about MFX I am sort of thinking about renewing my aging MTS system. What is the actual equipment I would need and a likely price to get the MFX system? Also I have notice a track plan display on the control unit, what purpose does this serve? And is it wireless to enable walking around the garden?

Central station, power supply and control box come in the set.You can control your layout from the central station but the CS is not mobile.
For remote control you need to add ethernet cable, WLAN Router and a smart phone or tablet. And just to really annoy you, you have to PURCHASE the app.

I am not keen on using a smart phone as a controller. As said above, its not tactile, I find its keeps switching off and you cant see the screen in sunlight very well, let alone dropping the bugger.
I far prefer the Massoth Navigator as a hand controller.

and I consider the design to be outdated. I know that doesn't effect how it works but it just looks old fashioned to me.

 

[stockers]

and that only gives you 3 amps. Enough for a couple of locos but not much if you start adding accessories or want to run with friends. It can handle 5 amps but that means buying a bigger power supply.