Massoth & Dcc Point Control

duncan1_9_8_4

duncan1_9_8_4

UK Railway Signaller and Garden Railway Operator
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United-Kingdom
Afternoon. Now that my dads debacle with the Massoth Central Station is over and sorted, we would like to start the process of controlling the Point work by DCC/Massoth Navigator. The equipment we have at the moment is; Massoth Central Station, Massoth DC Transformer/Power Supply, Massoth Wireless Navigator. So in language that an idiot can take in and understand, what is needed to do this (part numbers would be handy)? How are the points then powered? How are the points opperated? How are the points programmed/assingned a number? And where do all the various components go?

Thanks for your time, i appreciate it is a long winded question, but hopefully it will make the railway simpler to use in the long term, particularly shunting.
 
You need a motor to switch a point with the Navigator. If you use LGB track the LGB 12010 swicth motor will do the job. You will also need a switch decoder, Massoth 8156001 will control up to 4 switch motors while Massoth 8156601 can control 1 switch. The switch decoder is connected to the track (or the track output of the Massoth central station) and the switch is connected to the switch decoder. Job done. If you use more than one switch decoder you will have to program the switch addresses for subsequent switch decoders. The default is switch address 1-4 (4 channel switch deoders) or 1 (single channel swictch decoder).

Page 6 in this manual shows how the single channel switch decoder is connected to the track and to the swich motor: http://wiki.massoth.de/images/b/bb/991068_BDA_8156601_2015_03.pdf


You can also use the LGB swicth decoder 55025 as an alternative to the Massoth 4 channel switch decoder.
 
Loco said:
You need a motor to switch a point with the Navigator. If you use LGB track the LGB 12010 swicth motor will do the job. You will also need a switch decoder, Massoth 8156001 will control up to 4 switch motors while Massoth 8156601 can control 1 switch. The switch decoder is connected to the track (or the track output of the Massoth central station) and the switch is connected to the switch decoder. Job done. If you use more than one switch decoder you will have to program the switch addresses for subsequent switch decoders. The default is switch address 1-4 (4 channel switch deoders) or 1 (single channel swictch decoder).

Page 6 in this manual shows how the single channel switch decoder is connected to the track and to the swich motor: http://wiki.massoth.de/images/b/bb/991068_BDA_8156601_2015_03.pdf


You can also use the LGB swicth decoder 55025 as an alternative to the Massoth 4 channel switch decoder.
Click to expand...
So there still has to be a physical wire from switch to decoder?
 
Yup.
Two wires from decoder to each point motor.
Two wires from track to power the decoder.
Once connected the arrow buttons on the Navigator switch the points after you have selected the point motor address on the Navi under "M1"
 
The switch decoder ia connected to the track (it needs a dcc signal)

The point motor is connected to the switch decoder.

You change the point by dialing up the appropriate number on your navigator and select the required route. This sends a signal to the switch decode via the dcc signal on the track. The swich decoder then changes the point.
 
If you use the LGB 4-way module, you set the point numbers sequentially.. Frist unit 1-4, second 5-6 etc..
If you use the Massoth unit, each of the four 'channels' can have a different address. - You can also have a number of channels with the same address. So a point and signal could be fired from the same command.
 
I use the navigator and point decoders. One output will change two LGB points if wired together, like a loop for instance so that both points will change together for loop or main line.
 
right, I think im starting to understand then, the point motors/decoders take their power from the track. are the 4 way decoders waterproof then?
 
duncan1_9_8_4 said:
right, I think im starting to understand then, the point motors/decoders take their power from the track. are the 4 way decoders waterproof then?
Click to expand...

As 'waterproof' as any bit of electronics in the garden..
You do need to protect them a little. Certainly NOT in a hole in the ground! - If you can mount them under a base-board, or on a vertical surface (say), where they will not get flooded, you should be fine.
 
A lot of people will put their switch decoders (and other similar modules like Reversing Loop units) inside a small lineside building - a workmens' hut or other type of little shed - to keep them away from the worst of the elements. Others who are not so concerned with the aesthetics may put them inside a plastic food container, but if you do that with a near-airtight one make sure you put a few silica gel sachets in to absorb moisture!

Jon.
 
So does the Single Switch decoder plug straight into the end of the point motor as i have seen in various pics. Though this would be more expensive, it would mean less wire outside, as it can be wired to the track directly along side the motor?
 
duncan1_9_8_4 said:
So does the Single Switch decoder plug straight into the end of the point motor as i have seen in various pics. Though this would be more expensive, it would mean less wire outside, as it can be wired to the track directly along side the motor?
Click to expand...
Yes much more expensive but less wire. The LGB single switch decoder 55024 has pins that plug directly in LGB switch motor. The PIKO single switch decoder 35016 has pins that plug into the PIKO switch motor. The Massoth single switch decoder has wires but you can position it between the tracks close to the motor so very short wires. It works with either LGB or PIKO switch motors. IMO the Massoth single switch decoder is more waterproof than either of the LGB or PIKO options, and more waterproof than the Massoth 4 channel decoder.
 
Duncan before you spend money it would make sence to plan how you are going to achieve the setup you require. For instance you might find that 4 points are in fairly close proximity thus 1 of 4 Way Switch Decoder can do those 4 Points with minimal wiring. To make things pretier I have been using Small Mains Wire Trunking to run wires round the layout. The smalkest ones obtainable form BnQ are pretty cheep if you do not but the self stick ones. Painted either Black or Grey they look quite acceptable. I go further with mine and loosly with a saw cut in regular joints cosmetically to make the Concrete Trunking concept better. If you trawl through my Railway Build you will see some pictures of how I did it.

Also the idea of a Food Container works very well to keep the Decoder in good condition. If it is to be in the open I suggest that you Spray it Grey or Black. This will help stop the cheepo plastic from degrading. The other thing that could be done is to hide the Food Container in an appropriate Building, still spray it black and do all the things suggested to keep not only Water Out but Small Moving Things.

JonD
 
If you have a 'spare' channel on a 4-way unit.. You can use it for other things than points and signals.. You could control lights (in buildings, or at a crossing perhaps?).
Oh, and you can use the Massoth unit to drive a loco, or other motor!
 
Duncan, do you ever plan to run good old DC track power or maybe battery or live-steam on the line? If so you might like to think about NOT wiring the point decoders directly to the track, but instead wire to a pair of bus wires that go back to your DCC command station. That way you can still operate the points via DCC even when the track itself is disconnected from DCC. Just a thought.
 
ntpntpntp said:
Duncan, do you ever plan to run good old DC track power or maybe battery or live-steam on the line? If so you might like to think about NOT wiring the point decoders directly to the track, but instead wire to a pair of bus wires that go back to your DCC command station. That way you can still operate the points via DCC even when the track itself is disconnected from DCC. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
All the locos are Digital, live steam is banned ;)
dunnyrail said:
Duncan before you spend money it would make sence to plan how you are going to achieve the setup you require. For instance you might find that 4 points are in fairly close proximity thus 1 of 4 Way Switch Decoder can do those 4 Points with minimal wiring. To make things pretier I have been using Small Mains Wire Trunking to run wires round the layout. The smalkest ones obtainable form BnQ are pretty cheep if you do not but the self stick ones. Painted either Black or Grey they look quite acceptable. I go further with mine and loosly with a saw cut in regular joints cosmetically to make the Concrete Trunking concept better. If you trawl through my Railway Build you will see some pictures of how I did it.

Also the idea of a Food Container works very well to keep the Decoder in good condition. If it is to be in the open I suggest that you Spray it Grey or Black. This will help stop the cheepo plastic from degrading. The other thing that could be done is to hide the Food Container in an appropriate Building, still spray it black and do all the things suggested to keep not only Water Out but Small Moving Things.

JonD
Click to expand...
Like proper railway troughing, good idea.
PhilP said:
If you have a 'spare' channel on a 4-way unit.. You can use it for other things than points and signals.. You could control lights (in buildings, or at a crossing perhaps?).
Oh, and you can use the Massoth unit to drive a loco, or other motor!
Click to expand...
Hmmm perhaps level crossing lights....
 
Today we have been trying to do the railways points using the Massoth Decoders I bought last month. The first one has gone fine, as it is pre programmed 1-2-3-4, and all the points work fine off it.
1 = POINT
2= POINT
3= POINT
4= SPARE
Trying to do the second decoder has not worked, I cannot follow or understand the instructions, but have tried, each time it says 'succesful' on the Central Station, but upon getting it wired to the points downstairs it does not work. In this case, what I want to be output 5 on the second decoder.
But when I press to control switch 1 (off the 1st decoder), what I want to be number 5 (on the second decoder) operates at the same time as number 1 on the first decoder.
Please help, in idiots English, when you can. Confused, and I have followed the central station instructions
 
You must program the second Switch decoder to handle the required addresses.

CVs 31 thru 38 control the addresses used.

Two CVs (called "high" and "low") are used for each output to define its address. As you are using values less than 256 the "high" CV should be set to 0 and the "low" CV set to the required value.

So CV 31 & 32 are for SW1, 33 & 34 for SW2, 35 & 36 for SE3 and 37 & 38 for SW4.

So to set SW1 to 5, ensure CV31=0 and set CV32=5.

You need to program all the address value for the decoder. They do not need to be sequential. I am not sure what will happen if you program two outputs in one switch decoder to the same address.

The process for programming one of these Switch decoders is...

1. Connect the decoder to the programming track and a switch motor to SW1.
2. Unlock the decoder by setting CV2 to 77
3. Change the CVs are required, i.e. CV32=5, CV34=6, CV36=7 & CV38=8
4. Lock the decoder by setting CV2 to 0.
5 Connect to the main track and test.

Hope that helps.
 
A second switch decoder must be


programmed the same way:

Set CV2=77 to unlock the decoder

CV32=5 Output 1 becomes address 5

CV34=6 Output 2 becomes address 6

CV36=7 Output 3 becomes address 7

CV38=8 Output 4 becomes address 8

Set CV2=0 to lock the decoder


Does that help?

Mark beat me to it..
The addresses do not need to be sequential, and you can set multiple outputs to the same address if you wish. - Either in the same, or different modules.
 
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