LGB MTS fitted engines slow on analog?

[jameshilton]

After running my newly aquired Rugens this weekend on the EJ&KLR is was quite interesting to see how it performed on analog, using my basic starter set controller. Peter (whatlep) has chipped it for use on DCC/MTS - and it runs very smoothly, however I notice that it runs a lot slower than my other LGB models - including the twin motored 2095 diesel - and doesn't move off until you get to 3 (out of 4) on the controller.

My two other digital locomotives, a LGB MTS factory fitted U-class and the sound fitted Bachmann Shay, also run a lot slower than the other non-chipped locomotives on this controller.

I have a question...
Is this how all DCC locomotives perform on analog, or is it the controller? I don't have any other issues with it - but do you need more than 1A to give the chipped locomotives more performance?

I want to decide whether to upgrade the controller (which is a plan for later next year) or remove the decoder. I'd like the Rugens to perform as well as the Frank S conversion and 2095.

 

[Phil]

James, The digital chips require more power to start up, its nothing to do with your controller really..
Most of my locos are digital, but i run analog.. (i'll be upgrading soon )

 

[yb281]

I've always found that chipped locos run well on analogue, pulling away and pulling up in a much smoother manner in many cases. I've never found speed (or lack of it) an issue, but I do use a 5 amp transformer.

 

[jameshilton]

Should the switch in the cab still work with a chip fitted? In this case it doesn't seem to do anything at all in any position.

 

[whatlep]

After running my newly aquired Rugens this weekend on the EJ&KLR is was quite interesting to see how it performed on analog, using my basic starter set controller. Peter (whatlep) has chipped it for use on DCC/MTS - and it runs very smoothly, however I notice that it runs a lot slower than my other LGB models - including the twin motored 2095 diesel - and doesn't move off until you get to 3 (out of 4) on the controller.

My two other digital locomotives, a LGB MTS factory fitted U-class and the sound fitted Bachmann Shay, also run a lot slower than the other non-chipped locomotives on this controller.

I have a question...
Is this how all DCC locomotives perform on analog, or is it the controller? I don't have any other issues with it - but do you need more than 1A to give the chipped locomotives more performance?

I want to decide whether to upgrade the controller (which is a plan for later next year) or remove the decoder. I'd like the Rugens to perform as well as the Frank S conversion and 2095.

Hi James. I think the answer to your questions is straightforward. I always adjust the DCC chips I fit to reduce the loco's maximum speed and match that speed to my other locos. I hadn't realised that this also affected analogue running, so my apologies for any inconvenience. If you have any people with DCC nearby, it's a simple matter of resetting the chip to the default manufacturer settings. I can advise on CV values if required. Something similar may be required for the U class.

In my experience, sound fitted locos always require more current before starting as some power is directed to the sound board. My Orient Express (blue) Mallet required very different DCC chip speed settings (minimum/maximum) compared to the other Mallets due to this.

 

[jameshilton]

Ah Peter - that is indeed a simple answer!!

 

[whatlep]

Should the switch in the cab still work with a chip fitted? In this case it doesn't seem to do anything at all in any position.

No. When the internal "dip" switches in an LGB loco are set to DCC rather than analogue the cab switch is bypassed, on the assumption that all control is now via the DCC facilities.

 

[jameshilton]

Thanks Peter - two great answers. I don't know anyone on my doorstep who can help, but I'm sure I'll visit someone with DCC at some point who can help.

 

[KeithT]

I found that running my Sachsen which has an XLS chip on 5A made a huge difference to top speed compared with the 1A controller. The same applied to the Ballenburg and other locos which are analogue.
With 5A there is just "more in the tank".

 

[whatlep]

Thanks Peter - two great answers. I don't know anyone on my doorstep who can help, but I'm sure I'll visit someone with DCC at some point who can help.

Glad to help James, but sorry it's not been a perfect handover. For reference, my records show that the Rugens' chip currently has the following speed settings (out of 255 where 255 equals expected 18 volt track voltage):
CV2 - Minimum starting voltage: 32
CV6 - Mid speed voltage: 64
CV5 - Max. voltage: 128

So yes, it will require a fair amount of starting volts and should stroll along rather than zoom.

To reset the speed values enter 66 to CV7. The chip values will then revert to 2, 64 and 255 respectively. Or simply enter values of 2 and 255 to CVs 2 and 5 respectively.

 

[jameshilton]

Peter - thanks again, and no need at all to apologise. You were very accommodating with the collection arrangements, and it was a pleasure to meet and deal with you

 

[jameshilton]

Another question to the wisdom of the Digital users on here... I have a Bachmann Dynamis system I use for some of my 4mm models. Can I use this to re-write (only - NOT to run the Rugens) the CV values on the chip fitted to this Rugens? or do I need a LGB or Massoth system?

 

[ntpntpntp]

I'm not familiar with the Dynamis but if it can do service mode programming then I see no reason why it shouldn't be able to program the decoder. Can the Dynamis read CV's? Try that first I guess. Try to check the existing CV value, try writing to it and then read the CV again to make sure the change was accepted.

 

[dutchelm]

Whilst I run DC I prefer to add an LGB decoder to my loco as they work well on DC, not all do.
Set the start voltage to 5, this allows the sound & lights to work before the loco moves.
Set the acceleration to 15 - 20 which gives a nice slow acceleration.
Set the max speed to what ever you want. The lower the value the higher the track voltage for the same speed & therefore better running.

Apply full volts to the track (via a signal switch) & the loco slowly accelerates up to its preset speed, no Turbo starts.

 

[bunnyrabbit03]

Yes, of course. You simply connect the Dynamis to a piece of track (it does not have a service track connection in its basic form) and programme the CVs as per 'Programming on Service Track'. You will not be able to read CVs with the basic set-up, but the loco should move slightly as a sign that it has accepted the command.

You can, by the way, use the Dynamis system to drive the Rugens. Dynamis has only 16V (if I remember correctly) without the booster, but this is still enough for basic operations and to test it. While it is on the programming track, simply set CV 1 to the number you like for the loco, select this on the main screen, and off you go.

Marc

 

[dunnyrail]

James, I used to use my Dynamis for testing with no worries at all. Would suggest that you leave CV 1 at 3 on all your locomotives, as this is the well known default if you need to do anything so that in the future you will know what the CV value is. From memory you should have no problems changing the CV values to your requirement with the Dynamis. I sold mine out of service when a Gaugemaster one came my way which is used for the same job. Both Controllers quite happily drove G Scale Locomotives. In fact you might find that your Dynamis will drive your Garden Railway quite happily! Then you can join us in the black art!
JonD

 

[jameshilton]

Thanks Jon (and others) - I'll try this evening and report back.