Help choose the next Roundhouse loco

[New Haven Neil]

Careering back on topic......

I quite like those metre gauge Pecketts......ironstone line somewhere, don't recall exactly which one it was......OK for 45mm too !!

 

[Sea Lion]

You will be needing the online Peckett catalogue to choose from then Neil? http://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/slides/page80.html < Link To www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/slides/page80.html

Happy steamings,

John

 

[Ferrysteam]

You will be needing the online Peckett catalogue to choose from then Neil? http://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/slides/page80.html < Link To www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/slides/page80.html

Happy steamings,

John

That was fascinating.Thank you John.

 

[palmerston]

As all Accucraft rolling stock is deliverd with wheels set at 45mm one would think its more in demand then O-gauge.

 

[Phil]

How about a A4 mallard?

 

[palmerston]

The Gauge One Model Company is filling the G1 market with models produced for them direct by Accucraft China.

http://www.g1m.co.uk/

 

[New Haven Neil]

You will be needing the online Peckett catalogue to choose from then Neil? http://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/slides/page80.html < Link To www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/slides/page80.html

Happy steamings,

John

That took half my free time last night.......

 

[tagorton]

As all Accucraft rolling stock is delivered with wheels set at 45mm one would think its more in demand then O-gauge.

One might. On the other hand this does not necessarlly translate to steam locomotives, particularly narrow gauge models. Historically NG steam started in the UK on 32mm gauge. The balance is changing, but live steam is currently a minority interest on 45mm and a majority interest on 32mm.

 

[pmorgan_cym]

Having owned several models of Accucraft, Regner, Aster IMHO Roundhouse are the best Garden Railway livesteam locomotives. Their construction shows an almost 30 years of improvement in reliability. The chesehead screws are not imported to that.

Tom Rolt seems a model which will gain interest in the Tall -y- lyn. I do like the twin buffer arangement. Looking forward to how to connect with coaches.

tallylyn nr. 3 (Edit :4) with Hackwort valve gear like Carrie

Agreed ? but is ha'porth of tar territory here. I find it annoying to have to replace all this stuff on a new locomotive. Accucraft are improving all the time in terms of reliability and are already better in terms of appearance and detailing. Once, as is planned, they have their spares available by return. I would be likely to use their models more for my personal conversions. Roundhouse would be wise to look to their laurels. Tom Rolt it seems, has not sparked much interest. Not sure why, it looks good to me. Still the usual changes to make however.

I think the trouble with Tom Rolt, is two fold, the first is the subject matter is porbably not the most popular, (personally I find it an attractive loco, that would be an interesting genric loco, a 0-4-2 makes a change from the more usual 0-4-0/0-6-0s). The main issue I see, is that it is priced in the same ball park as the Accucraft Countess, and the Countess is a more attractive looking loco, a moire popular loco and appears better value in terms of the detailing etc on offer.

The most detailed locos in the R/House range,which I would class as the Darj, Talesin, SLLR and VoR are considerably more expensive than the Acft Countess.

 

[tagorton]

As all Accucraft rolling stock is delivered with wheels set at 45mm one would think its more in demand then O-gauge.

One might. On the other hand this does not necessarlly translate to steam locomotives, particularly narrow gauge models. Historically NG steam started in the UK on 32mm gauge. The balance is changing, but live steam is currently a minority interest on 45mm and a majority interest on 32mm.

I think that until Accucraft brought out their rolling stock models there was little ready to run 16mm "0" gauge rolling stock and therefore most had to built from kits or from scratch which appealed to the old boys who liked to tinker in their sheds and workshops for much of the week and this mentallity like the constant fiddling around that running live steam requires. When I first joined the 16mm Assoc in the 80s even most of the locos were home made with only a few wealthy members having ready build locos by Merlin, Roundhouse and Archangle. Since more ready to run rolling stock had become available I know many people who run these on 45mm gauge with track, powered, batttery and live steam locos. Certainly and G Scale Soc. events I've seen plenty running mixed with LGB behind elctric powered locos, many G scalers have a live steam loco or two but not to run constantly as the pleasure is more from watching the trains run than driving them. I know plenty of people some with 45mm tracks and others 32mm but I've seen more Accucraft rolling stock on the 45mm gauge lines, I don't want to generalise but there are quite a few 16millers who would spend weeks building a wagon from card and wood than pay a few Pounds more to buyy a ready made onbe which looks and runs better.

It is certainly difficult to quantify and of course very easy to generalise based on a small and possibly unrepresentative local observation. The only figures generally available I suppose, are the comparative membership levels. I have also seen live steam running at G scale events, but with the Society running at a third of the membership of the largely steam powered 16mm Association and, as you have said, "many G scalers have a live steam loco or two," it rather makes my point don't you think?

Maintenance of live steam can I suppose be defined as constant fiddling, and as I run mostly coal fired then it seems I fall into this category. I am also rather surprised to see that I am also considered wealthy (I must tell my wife ? on the other hand perhaps that would not be a good idea) but I gave up other things too save for my locos (no beer, no pipe and no evening paper)


I should however, make the point that this is not a matter of "defending one's turf." We all have different preferences within this hobby and, given that it is just a hobby, there is not one method of playing trains that is better than another. We should all do want we prefer to do.

 

[MRail]

Very good, Steve.
On retiring, only 2 yrs ago, I was finally able to buy some steam locos - from the very source you mention.
I have 3 Roundhouse and 3 Accucraft all 2nd hand. My original Jane is the only loco I have bought new.

 

[tagorton]

I go to both G and 16 mill events and know that at least 1/3 of the G Scale Soc members are also members of the 16mm Assoc and some are members of the Gauge 1 Soc. G scale by its very nature is always diveded into many different groups with many collectors/enthusiasts no members of any club so the constant comparissions with the 16mm Assoc which is only narrow gauge to one scale is a little pointless.

This thread seems to of driffed off topic as it seemed to me about suggestions how Roundhouse could appeal to other markets with new products. All the talk about British 2' - 2'6" gauge prototypes seems a little pointless as Roundhouse will allways make them and the same type of people will buy them who do now, if they want to grow or even keep up current levels of sales they need products that people other than their current main market will want to buy in sufficient numbers. Regner seem to be getting it right by now making simpler locos in US and Britsh outlines and also making boat parts whilst still keeping their core market of Germanic G Scale locos.
The biggest danger to Roundhouse now, in my opinion, is the UK 16mm market as they have built so many locos and most of them sold to gentlemen of a certain age that more and more are coming up in good or even almost new second hand condition, their products are built to last so as years go by there will be more and more second hand readily avaible. When you think that a large number were bought by men when they retired in the 90s you only have to do the maths to see that many of these will unfortunatly come up for sale in the next decade.

1/3rd eh? I would like to know how you know this? I am a member of both and, while I have not been through the both lists to compare name by name, this is not my perception ? maybe you have Steve and, if so this information would be most interesting if you could let us have the figures. Personally I very much doubt that there are four hundred with joint membership of both Society and Association. There seem to be more who are members of both G1 and 16mm ? but again I have not gone through both page by page! The figures for membership are the only ones we have other than my own for readership of GardenRail (which is bigger than the combined membership of both clubs) so they are the only ones we have. Other than this it can only be based on personal observation which is necessarily subjective. I may run a poll within GR when things here get a little quieter.

Well we are not in agreement here ? but then we are each entitled to an opinion A great many locos were also purchased in the 80s and after the turn of the century. There seems to be little problem with younger people coming into the hobby ? but there there are more suppliers of locomotives including the excellent Regner products. I also have my reservations about being built to last ? running gear, bearings and moving parts are not bushed and therefore have a finite life. Most people do not have a problem with this because if they go to a meeting they will only run for half an hour ? but those who run NG live steam and are separated from other people find that they need to learn to service and replace fairly swiftly ? particularly if they have only one engine! One of my New Zealand correspondents wore his Lady Anne out in two years! It is worth reiterating that Accucraft UK are bringing out live steam 45mm IoM locos ? perhaps Roundhouse are waiting to see how these go, given that their Forney did not go well at all...



I agree that this thread is/was about suggesting a new locomotive to Roundhouse. There will however, be many different opinions and this is how it should be. As a commercial venture Roundhouse will pick the bones out of their lists and make a decision on how to invest their own money.

 

[Ferrysteam]

For my three pennyworth,I would suggest a very basic locomotive with easily interchangeable body parts,interchangeable tanks,cabs etc.I think it would make it easier for people to make a start in this hobby.Just add when funds permit basically.

 

[New Haven Neil]

That's not a bad idea Allan, kind of like those 'Kenversions' of Mamods in the articles in GR recently....! Roundhouse have the bare bones of that already I suppose, in Sammy and Bertie. Millie sems to have a longer wheelbase, maybe to accomodate the external burner.

Of course, we shouldn't kid ourselves they don't read this forum too.........I'm sure it will all be absorbed at Doncaster HQ????

Tag's comment about the Forney re-inforces what I said earlier too

 

[tagorton]

That's not a bad idea Allan, kind of like those 'Kenversions' of Mamods in the articles in GR recently....! Roundhouse have the bare bones of that already I suppose, in Sammy and Bertie. Millie sems to have a longer wheelbase, maybe to accomodate the external burner.

Of course, we shouldn't kid ourselves they don't read this forum too.........I'm sure it will all be absorbed at Doncaster HQ????

Tag's comment about the Forney re-inforces what I said earlier too

Well they have the kits, running chassis, boiler, bodywork ? and these are excellent.

 

[Ferrysteam]

Roundhouse kits have their place Tag,more for the experienced modeller I think.I was thinking on the ready assembled, ready painted type of parts,after all,not everyone is able to solder or make a worthy job of painting.

 

[tagorton]

Roundhouse kits have their place Tag,more for the experienced modeler I think.I was thinking on the ready assembled, ready painted type of parts,after all,not everyone is able to solder or make a worthy job of painting.

True... I think the model/s would need to be designed from the ground up and would make a nice halfway house for those considering modification and improvements without soldering or painting. I am not that keen on painting myself and tend to stick to black if I can. Only thing is that I doubt that such a model would provide a significant cost saving over a current four-coupled. Certainly it would be worth looking at.

 

[pmorgan_cym]

Isn't that proposal, dangerously close to Basic locos in kit form, something that I think R/House stated would never happen, I'm guessing because the basic locos are pared to the bone to reduce assembly costs, so the difference between and unassembled and assemble Basic is pretty much nothing. (Check the costs of a basic running chassis to a fully assembled sammie/bertie not much in it last time I looked).

A few yesrs ago, when before Accucraft were fully established, and there were teething issues with the locos, the apperaed to me to have a cheap and cheerful sort of feel, although with reasonable quality, but not close to what R/h was offering. And it seemed that R/house's place in the market was safe.

Now the quality of the locos seems to improve with each release, each new batch/re-run seems to incorporate improvements over the last. The prototype outline locos seem to come loaded with ever more unfeasible and eyewatering levels of detail. And the cost is startling keen, compare say Countess with Lady Anne, or possibly even more worrying at the lower end of the market Leader with Millie/Sammie/Bertie. Leader could well become the budbet loco to have, assuming it runs aswell as it looks.

I've often praised R/Houses service and cold about Accucrafts and said it would be a major factor I when i next bought a live steam loco, but at the moment I'm find I'm increasingly looking past the Doncaster products to those tempting locos from the far east.

 

[hornbeam]

Interesting point. I?m looking at my first Accucraft purchase, but have five Roundhouse locos. On the subject, Accucraft must have hit the sales from Tenmille, GRS and Brandbright with the sales of their rolling stock. But for me it is the bigger picture. Roundhouse run better, are more power full and the burners are better but as said Accucraft are catching up. I feel there is a lot of things Roundhouse can do to improve existing models (and of note is their website asks for ?any other comments?), such as scale rivets, hex head screws, blackened wheels, glazing, scale rivets and (non scale)sight glasses, all of which won?t cost them a fortune to do, and some things could be bought to enhance existing models. We have seen one very large manufacturer go bust because of not listening to the market and I?m sure Roundhouse will not follow. From speaking to people many say there ultimate goal is to own a Roundhouse, so the market may well be big enough for both, and indeed, Accucraft have to build much larger batches of models than Roundhouse do. Also, many people- more so when getting older ( hope not to cause offence) just like to buy British.

 

[tagorton]

Isn't that proposal, dangerously close to Basic locos in kit form, something that I think R/House stated would never happen, I'm guessing because the basic locos are pared to the bone to reduce assembly costs, so the difference between and unassembled and assemble Basic is pretty much nothing. (Check the costs of a basic running chassis to a fully assembled sammie/bertie not much in it last time I looked).

Yes it is ? but I was not looking at the current 'budget' range, but something more expensive to allow people to mix, match and modify. A new design entirely. An 'in between' kits and RTR if you like. It is not always about price and it is something that Accucraft currently do not do ? other than an RTR chassis.