Help choose the next Roundhouse loco

[pjti]

From the RH site

We do get a lot of feedback from our UK customers through meeting you at exhibitions, so we are particularly interested to hear from those of you in the USA, and mainland Europe

 

[New Haven Neil]

snip<
tallylyn nr. 3 with Hackwort valve gear like Carrie

That's number 4 'Edward Thomas'.....no. 3 ' Sir Haydn' has inside stephenson valvegear.

 

[stevedenver]

ross dont you like kafeklatch?

no matter how many times ive posted to RH, i never get as many fun replies or as thoughtful replies as here



-in fact, unless i call/email  RH (and i have for spares)  i get no response-and yes i sent my wishes directly so you dont need to worry about misdirected energy on my part 



the idea is to simply share dreams-like when we were kids
oooooooooooooooooh THAT WOULD BE SUPER

remember when dreaming and sharing was the best one could do for fun if one didnt have the money ??? 

 

[Spule 4]

I would of said that many minature live steam locos were a lot more toylike than the detailed electric models. Only when you get to the large scales you ride on are they anything like real locos.

One of the remarks made several times decades ago about LBSCs designs, many were good working, but not attractive. A trade off for sure.

Another bit that always bugged me about SM32 modelling was may of the locos are WAY overscale, there were not many Welsh/contractors/2' gauge engines that were nearly 8' wide?

 

[andysleigh]

I would of said that many minature live steam locos were a lot more toylike than the detailed electric models. Only when you get to the large scales you ride on are they anything like real locos.

One of the remarks made several times decades ago about LBSCs designs, many were good working, but not attractive. A trade off for sure.

Another bit that always bugged me about SM32 modelling was may of the locos are WAY overscale, there were not many Welsh/contractors/2' gauge engines that were nearly 8' wide?

you dont need to worry about that, you jsut need to know its the one and true gauge
*runs for the hills and hides:-

 

[MRail]

Another bit that always bugged me about SM32 modelling was may of the locos are WAY overscale, there were not many Welsh/contractors/2' gauge engines that were nearly 8' wide?

I don't thinks it's SM32 that's the problem. It's that manufacturers need to maximise sales.

So RH make their "16mm" ish locos adjustable to 45mm gauge - and they are bought by G scalers.

Accu make models of 3ft(ish) gauge locos, sold set to 45mm. They can be adjusted to 32mm so 16millers buy them.
These are way over scale width, as I've found from experience. Yes - I have three Accu and three RH.

The nearest scale model I have is Maxwell Hemmens "Ogwen".
She's tiny, but on my 2'6" curves pulls the same load as Lawley or Wrekin, because of the drag of the longer loco.

 

[Casey's mate]

How about Thomas the Tank, Percy and James?
Their own Thomas range!

 

[MRail]

How about Thomas the Tank, Percy and James?

No to mention Ivor!!

 

[tagorton]

Having owned several models of Accucraft, Regner, Aster IMHO Roundhouse are the best Garden Railway livesteam locomotives. Their construction shows an almost 30 years of improvement in reliability. The chesehead screws are not imported to that.

Tom Rolt seems a model which will gain interest in the Tall -y- lyn. I do like the twin buffer arangement. Looking forward to how to connect with coaches.

tallylyn nr. 3 (Edit :4) with Hackwort valve gear like Carrie

Agreed ? but is ha'porth of tar territory here. I find it annoying to have to replace all this stuff on a new locomotive. Accucraft are improving all the time in terms of reliability and are already better in terms of appearance and detailing. Once, as is planned, they have their spares available by return. I would be likely to use their models more for my personal conversions. Roundhouse would be wise to look to their laurels. Tom Rolt it seems, has not sparked much interest. Not sure why, it looks good to me. Still the usual changes to make however.

 

[Moonraker]

Rather than introduce new locos, based on ever more obscure prototypes, RH could consider improving existing popular models. I am thinking of the Fowler, Russell and Billy/Katie.

Tag, do you know if the Silver Lady upgrade of Lady Anne was a success for RH?

Regards
Peter

 

[stevedenver]

agree completely- i think they have done this comparing old SRRL and the new-the ponies on the new are brass-my old are white metal

 

[casey jones snr]

How about Thomas the Tank, Percy and James?
Their own Thomas range!

That's more like it. Blue sky thinking. Absolutely marvellous.

 

[New Haven Neil]

I think Tom Rolt is a rather ugly little job, when I go to the TR I try to avoid it!X( ergo, I'm not surprised it's not doing very well - I was a bit shocked when Roundhouse announced it.

 

[fm12]

They therefore need to find alternative markets to enable them to keep growing without trying to do too much too quickly. It would seem with the low value of the £ that they are missing a trick not making more locos that appeal to the German and US markets.

Or the French,a Corpet 0-6-0 would sell over here.Well one anyway

 

[tagorton]

I think Roundhouse are in danger of becomming a victim of their own succuss in a limited market like LGB was:-

1. They have tied themselves too closely to the 16mm Assoc. and ignored the G and growing Fn3 markets.
2. Their locos are usually built to last and so there main competitor after Accucraft UK is the second hand market of their own products which had built up over the past 30 years which will become more and more an issue.

They therefore need to find alternative markets to enable them to keep growing without trying to do too much too quickly. It would seem with the low value of the £ that they are missing a trick not making more locos that appeal to the German and US markets.

Well they could do with a new US loco, but all their generic locos are available in 45mm and most of the others as well. I am interested to note that you see their market as limited by 16mm scale because Roundhouse generally and correctly don't quote a scale for their models. What do you base this perception on? Of course it is difficult to get definitive figures on this, but they may be looking at the growing 16mm membership and the shrinking G scale Soc membership. I have no axe to grind here other than a commercial one and I am, like several people I know, a member of both ? but I am baffled as to why this is so ? perhaps the decline of LGB???. Are 45millers in live steam joining the 16mm Assoc rather than the G scale Soc??? Even so the market for actual 45mm gauge is certainly growing, particularly 1:20.3 scale. They could try the German market of course ? but Germany is fairly well covered by several live steam suppliers who concentrate on German models. Certainly the Stonleigh event is larger than any other, and I have long been an advocate in having more than just 16mm there ? and this has already started. Anyway I suppose Roundhouse must invest their own money where they see fit.

 

[mike]

They therefore need to find alternative markets to enable them to keep growing without trying to do too much too quickly. It would seem with the low value of the £ that they are missing a trick not making more locos that appeal to the German and US markets.

Or the French,a Corpet 0-6-0 would sell over here.Well one anyway

make that two....

 

[andysleigh]

I think Roundhouse are in danger of becomming a victim of their own succuss in a limited market like LGB was:-

1. They have tied themselves too closely to the 16mm Assoc. and ignored the G and growing Fn3 markets.
2. Their locos are usually built to last and so there main competitor after Accucraft UK is the second hand market of their own products which had built up over the past 30 years which will become more and more an issue.

They therefore need to find alternative markets to enable them to keep growing without trying to do too much too quickly. It would seem with the low value of the £ that they are missing a trick not making more locos that appeal to the German and US markets.

But there companys already doing German stuff, and TBH they are probably doing to do them better detailed and cheaper than roundhouse,
its not really Roundhouses style, they are a 16mm scale model company, and thats how they started out, for 16mm, and 16mm in the main is British moddelling, and i think there would be a few displeased faces if they started doing more g scale style stuff.


they havnt ignored the g scale side completely, they included a very nice looking big slot on the buffer beams so g scale tension lock couplings can be fitted 8|

One problem is that they like to stick to the idea of using the same cylinders and valve gear for anything they do, perhaps if they broke out of that habit for a few locos, then they could do somthing a bit different.

 

[tagorton]

I think Roundhouse are in danger of becomming a victim of their own succuss in a limited market like LGB was:-

1. They have tied themselves too closely to the 16mm Assoc. and ignored the G and growing Fn3 markets.
2. Their locos are usually built to last and so there main competitor after Accucraft UK is the second hand market of their own products which had built up over the past 30 years which will become more and more an issue.

They therefore need to find alternative markets to enable them to keep growing without trying to do too much too quickly. It would seem with the low value of the £ that they are missing a trick not making more locos that appeal to the German and US markets.

But there companys already doing German stuff, and TBH they are probably doing to do them better detailed and cheaper than roundhouse,
its not really Roundhouses style, they are a 16mm scale model company, and thats how they started out, for 16mm, and 16mm in the main is British moddelling, and i think there would be a few displeased faces if they started doing more g scale style stuff.


they havnt ignored the g scale side completely, they included a very nice looking big slot on the buffer beams so g scale tension lock couplings can be fitted 8|

One problem is that they like to stick to the idea of using the same cylinders and valve gear for anything they do, perhaps if they broke out of that habit for a few locos, then they could do somthing a bit different.

Hmmmmn. The valve gear is different on quite a few locos Andy. Apart from the obvious one such as Carrie (which did not sell well) the Ffestiniog locos have different running gear to their satndard semi Walschaerts.

 

[tagorton]

I think Roundhouse are in danger of becomming a victim of their own succuss in a limited market like LGB was:-

1. They have tied themselves too closely to the 16mm Assoc. and ignored the G and growing Fn3 markets.
2. Their locos are usually built to last and so there main competitor after Accucraft UK is the second hand market of their own products which had built up over the past 30 years which will become more and more an issue.

They therefore need to find alternative markets to enable them to keep growing without trying to do too much too quickly. It would seem with the low value of the £ that they are missing a trick not making more locos that appeal to the German and US markets.

But there companys already doing German stuff, and TBH they are probably doing to do them better detailed and cheaper than roundhouse,
its not really Roundhouses style, they are a 16mm scale model company, and thats how they started out, for 16mm, and 16mm in the main is British moddelling, and i think there would be a few displeased faces if they started doing more g scale style stuff.


they havnt ignored the g scale side completely, they included a very nice looking big slot on the buffer beams so g scale tension lock couplings can be fitted 8|

One problem is that they like to stick to the idea of using the same cylinders and valve gear for anything they do, perhaps if they broke out of that habit for a few locos, then they could do somthing a bit different.

My whole point was that they have got themselves trapped in a rut by only maming mostly 2' gauge prototypes to 16mm scale where as to get a larger market they really need to produce Irish and other 3' gauge at 15mm scale or models which would appeal to colonial /continental markets. When they started out their models had no specific scale and they have produced both colonial and continental style locos in the past. If they only concentrate on the small UK 16mm market they stand the risk of going the way all the other 16mm loco builders have gone in the past. 16mm has a big presence in the UK because the Assoc is better run and better at publicity than G Scale, Gauge 1 and Gauge 0 but is only a small market, not big outside the UK and is unique in that it has inherited the small scale model engineering following from 2.5" gauge and is a fusion of the British model enineering tradition and model trains which is not common in other countries. Compared with G scale the off the shelf ready to run 16mm market even in the UK is smaller and much smaller than 0 gauge.

I take your point here in that I do think that the 3ft prototypes are an area to be carefully exploited ? as Accucraft are doing with IoM in 1:20.3 (15mm). Now that there are more people who model live steam/45mm the Irish Railways I believe, are a route worth investigating closely for several reasons. First of all they are railways that are attractive to the greater proportion of UK NG modellers thereby providing a base of purchasers ? although if there are not enough 32mm gauge modellers to produce 32mm only, one has to ask if there enough 45 Millers for Roundhouse to consider 45mm only?They tried it once with the Forney. AccucraftUK seem to think there is a market ? but theirs is a different business model. The Irish prototypes take full advantage of the extra loading gauge space without the need to resort to 'rubber scale' and they will be attractive to many modellers in the US ? although the live steam market in the comparatively huge USA can hardly support a tiny bi-monthly magazine (Steam in Your Garden) let alone be a significant market. Marc H of Garden Railways magazine says Americans mostly like things easy and so prefer just to buy, plonk on the track and switch on. He made this comment ten years ago whilst we were running on a garden railway in Cornwall and I have not seen anything to modify his opinion. Live steam is not as common in the US or Europe as here and the UK/worldwide G scale market continues to be largely track-powered.

 

[casey jones snr]

Well put Tag, you really make the point. I whole heartedly concur.