GRS Gauge 3 Steam Tram Coaches

[dunnyrail]

Completely off the wall query but has anyone got one of these as an unbuilt kit?

Or built but not wanted any more even if it has been put on 45mm wheels, so long as not hacked about too much I can get it back to Gauge 3.

 

[3 minutes of fame]

If your search for rocking horse poo is unsuccessful, I reckon the coach i am working on in G45 will scale up and fit on the printer bed.

It's not perfect in terms of scale or construction, but it might be close enough. You would need to source bogies and wheels, but everything else should be OK.

 

[Rhinochugger]

I don't think the GRS Wisbech and Upwell coach was G3 - I think it was G1 to run on 45mm track

 

[dunnyrail]

If your search for rocking horse poo is unsuccessful, I reckon the coach i am working on in G45 will scale up and fit on the printer bed.

It's not perfect in terms of scale or construction, but it might be close enough. You would need to source bogies and wheels, but everything else should be OK.

Thanks Matt, I had got this in mind and scratching bogie and sourcing wheels not too much of an issue. But I was making a last ditch hope as the GRS kits were superb.

I don't think the GRS Wisbech and Upwell coach was G3 - I think it was G1 to run on 45mm track

They were Gauge 3 to run with their G3 Y6, remembering that G3 is the same scale but standard gauge to that we model I can understand where the confusion may arise. A few used the Y6 Steam Tram and Coaches on 45 track and they worked just fine.

 

[maxi-model]

I used to have a pair of those W&U coaches, built up with a scumbled exterior finish. They started life, as Jon says, as part of GRS's G3 range. However, as is the wont of any business looking to recoup tooling costs (their body's are quite substantial resin castings the bogies in white metal) they, no doubt due to their diminutive dimensions 1:1, were also marketed as "freelance" products with 45 mm wheel sets for the 16 mm scale market.

One little tip if you get a set un-built Jon. The coach side moldings are ever so slightly "lopsided", as were the balcony ends too, end to end/side to side. Not uncommon with GRS products of this type. So be careful to check and correct this when assembling. I was told by the MD of the moldings company I used to use, CMA, that you cold tell if a pattern maker was right or left handed partly because of this sometimes noted "distortion" in a pattern affecting the final build.

If you get to see "The Titfield Thunderbolt" film the coach used there is one of the original W&U items. Max

 

[dunnyrail]

Thanks Max, have the Thunderbolt in my library, funny that the one used in that film was the ine that got away and was cut. Another was found somewhere, after a period of store I think at the East Anglian Tramway Museum was preserved and is now I believe used on the Poppy Line at Sherringham.

 

[Rhinochugger]

I used to have a pair of those W&U coaches, built up with a scumbled exterior finish. They started life, as Jon says, as part of GRS's G3 range. However, as is the wont of any business looking to recoup tooling costs (their body's are quite substantial resin castings the bogies in white metal) they, no doubt due to their diminutive dimensions 1:1, were also marketed as "freelance" products with 45 mm wheel sets for the 16 mm scale market.

Yes, and even then they were not up to 1:20.3 dimensions

 

[dunnyrail]

Yes, and even then they were not up to 1:20.3 dimensions

Hm not sure exactly what Gauge 3 is scale wise, quoting their website

“Historically, some Gauge ‘3’ models of standard gauge prototypes were built to a scale of ½" to the foot. However, well known prolific locomotive designers like Henry Greenly and “LBSC” worked to the established scale of 17/32” (or 13.5mm) to the foot. The only standards that must be observed are the track gauge of 2½" or 63.5mm and the standards for wheel measurements.”

so about as flexible as LGB!

 

[Rhinochugger]

Hm not sure exactly what Gauge 3 is scale wise, quoting their website

“Historically, some Gauge ‘3’ models of standard gauge prototypes were built to a scale of ½" to the foot. However, well known prolific locomotive designers like Henry Greenly and “LBSC” worked to the established scale of 17/32” (or 13.5mm) to the foot. The only standards that must be observed are the track gauge of 2½" or 63.5mm and the standards for wheel measurements.”

so about as flexible as LGB!

They also say that rolling stock width ought to be about 140mm - so unless the W&U coaches were diminutive in all respects, then GRS were, as you say, doing an LGB

 

[Rhinochugger]

Hm not sure exactly what Gauge 3 is scale wise, quoting their website

“Historically, some Gauge ‘3’ models of standard gauge prototypes were built to a scale of ½" to the foot. However, well known prolific locomotive designers like Henry Greenly and “LBSC” worked to the established scale of 17/32” (or 13.5mm) to the foot. The only standards that must be observed are the track gauge of 2½" or 63.5mm and the standards for wheel measurements.”

so about as flexible as LGB!

Ooh, just done a bit of googling and Rue d'etropal make a 3D printed coach to Gauge 1 scale ..................

 

[dunnyrail]

They also say that rolling stock width ought to be about 140mm - so unless the W&U coaches were diminutive in all respects, then GRS were, as you say, doing an LGB

They were certainly diminutive in height and at 8ft wide about the same width as the Y6 and J70. Probably need the dimensions of the GRS kits to make a view on the scale or otherwise. Certainly from my memories of them at GRS they were pretty well spot on with their other G scale offerings in terms of buffer heights and widths. I just wish a year or three back I had bought the last 1 of the Coaches and the Y6 kit.

 

[maxi-model]

Looking at the G3 society website https://www.gauge3.org.uk/ the only spec is for track, not scale - infuriating, bit like the 2 scales quoted for G1, dependent on how much of a pedantic purist one wants to be. So, taking stipulated G3 track gauge at 2.5", and dividing it into 56.5" (4'8.5" std gauge 1:1) we get 1:22.6 as the seemingly appropriate scale if modelling std gauge prototypes - which the W&U coaches are in real life. Which is as near as dammit to the nominal scale used for a lot of mainstream NG stuff produced -1:22.5, rubber ruler or otherwise, that runs on 45 mm gauged track. Deep breath - If the prototype fits, why not make it ? So to speak Max

 

[dunnyrail]

Looking at the G3 society website Large Scale, Standard Gauge Garden Railways, The Gauge '3' Society the only spec is for track, not scale - infuriating, bit like the 2 scales quoted for G1, dependent on how much of a pedantic purist one wants to be. So, taking stipulated G3 track gauge at 2.5", and dividing it into 56.5" (4'8.5" std gauge 1:1) we get 1:22.6 as the seemingly appropriate scale if modelling std gauge prototypes - which the W&U coaches are in real life. Which is as near as dammit to the nominal scale used for a lot of mainstream NG stuff produced -1:22.5, rubber ruler or otherwise, that runs on 45 mm gauged track. Deep breath - If the prototype fits, why not make it ? So to speak Max

They do quote buffer height, length, lateral width, vehicle heigh and width on their standards. Was hoping if and when you have time that you may be able to measure W&U coach height (probably just the body would work as I have a scale drawing), length, and width would be good please Max. No rush.

 

[penylanpip]

The W&U coaches were quite petite... I pinched this photo of No 8 from - somewhere - years ago and understood it to have been taken in Stratford works yard after closure of passenger services on that line, still proclaiming "GER"!

 

[maxi-model]

They do quote buffer height, length, lateral width, vehicle heigh and width on their standards. Was hoping if and when you have time that you may be able to measure W&U coach height (probably just the body would work as I have a scale drawing), length, and width would be good please Max. No rush.

Sorry Jon. I sold them on about 5 years ago.

Mentioned in a previous post are these 3D printed standard gauge wisbech upwell coaches both 4 and 8 wheeled versions. You might be able to persuade them to upscale the item to 1:22.5 but it won't be cheap. Max

 

[PhilP]

Ooh, just done a bit of googling and Rue d'etropal make a 3D printed coach to Gauge 1 scale ..................

Errr....?
Which, while nice (must not look!), is not gauge 3!

As for "what scale gauge 3 is?". Shirley it is the same scale as (notionally) LGB? - 1:22.5. But standard, as opposed to, metre gauge.

PhilP

 

[Rhinochugger]

Errr....?
Which, while nice (must not look!), is not gauge 3!

As for "what scale gauge 3 is?". Shirley it is the same scale as (notionally) LGB? - 1:22.5. But standard, as opposed to, metre gauge.

PhilP

Yebbut - a standard gauge coach should be way too big for a narrow gauge line; s'not just a case of sitting it on narrow gauge bogies.

 

[ebay mike]

Completely off the wall query but has anyone got one of these as an unbuilt kit?

Or built but not wanted any more even if it has been put on 45mm wheels, so long as not hacked about too much I can get it back to Gauge 3.

I don't really know what these should look like Jon, so not sure if I can help. BUT somewhere in the famous garage I have two set of brass coach sides and ends plus fittings. They are bogie length jobs rather than 4 wheelers. I also have a pair of Bachmann Annie & Clarabel bodies. Is it worth me having s dig around tomorrow?

 

[dunnyrail]

I don't really know what these should look like Jon, so not sure if I can help. BUT somewhere in the famous garage I have two set of brass coach sides and ends plus fittings. They are bogie length jobs rather than 4 wheelers. I also have a pair of Bachmann Annie & Clarabel bodies. Is it worth me having s dig around tomorrow?

Oh yes please Mike Annie and Clarable bodies certainly on my hit list.

 

[Paul M]

Oh yes please Mike Annie and Clarable bodies certainly on my hit list.

Sounds like you're a Mafia hit man with that list