Doing some detective work on a used LGB coach recently purchased. Looking for more info.

B

blk69

Registered
8 Jul 2020
14
52
Central Ohio
Hello all. New to the forum. Recently picked up a LGB coach used. Was a Craigslist purchase, didn't really look at the coach that well, was part of a 4 car purchase. I know buyer beware!

After I brought it home, noticed it was heavily modified. I am just curious what it looked like originally. Let me describe what it looks like now.

1) It has been painted, the original paint is starting to show as scratches, looks like a brownish orange.
2) Coach is the smaller frame, two axle, yellowish orange windows (not painted).
3) Had 3rd class stickers, these have been painted over.
4) Coach has 3007 stamped by the door.
5) Roof is gray (not painted). A sky light as been added, looks nice but not original.
6) Truck stamped "made in West Germany"
7) Seats are black, do not look painted.
8) No inspections stickers.
9) Has notches above doors for lighting.

Anyone have any ideas where I should start to look on-line to star my search? i'm sure LGB has offered many models from the 3007 casting. Personally I have seen a lot of 1st and 2nd class coaches. Are the 3rd class ones just as common? Do all LGB trucks say made in West Germany. I am located in the USA.

Any help greatly appreciated.
 
curtis

curtis

Registered
27 Nov 2018
64
30
Germany
55E65198-1B56-417F-9348-C6630896B4ED.jpeg


does it look like this?

I always understand the model number 3007 meant the same body (althoughthe detailing could change over time)

there is also this one I found that shows a 3 sticker but looks like an older version to my eye. Wondering if the stickers we customisable in the earlier days?

2839E577-C522-44EF-92F9-48F92BFC1978.jpeg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,541
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Hello all. New to the forum. Recently picked up a LGB coach used. Was a Craigslist purchase, didn't really look at the coach that well, was part of a 4 car purchase. I know buyer beware!

After I brought it home, noticed it was heavily modified. I am just curious what it looked like originally. Let me describe what it looks like now.

1) It has been painted, the original paint is starting to show as scratches, looks like a brownish orange.
2) Coach is the smaller frame, two axle, yellowish orange windows (not painted).
3) Had 3rd class stickers, these have been painted over.
4) Coach has 3007 stamped by the door.
5) Roof is gray (not painted). A sky light as been added, looks nice but not original.
6) Truck stamped "made in West Germany"
7) Seats are black, do not look painted.
8) No inspections stickers.
9) Has notches above doors for lighting.

Anyone have any ideas where I should start to look on-line to star my search? i'm sure LGB has offered many models from the 3007 casting. Personally I have seen a lot of 1st and 2nd class coaches. Are the 3rd class ones just as common? Do all LGB trucks say made in West Germany. I am located in the USA.

Any help greatly appreciated.
A picture would help a lot as I have many of the books on vintage LGB.
 
B

blk69

Registered
8 Jul 2020
14
52
Central Ohio
B

blk69

Registered
8 Jul 2020
14
52
Central Ohio
View attachment 269768

does it look like this?

I always understand the model number 3007 meant the same body (althoughthe detailing could change over time)

there is also this one I found that shows a 3 sticker but looks like an older version to my eye. Wondering if the stickers we customisable in the earlier days?

View attachment 269769
I thought this might be the coach too. Unfortunately the windows don't match and mine has all "3" stickers. Roof looks like correct design, mine is gray.

I like the windows in this one, bit of a change of what I currently own.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,541
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
So looking at my book, 3007 came in quite a few variations. Production run 1971-1990. More than likely in Zillertalbahn livery. There looks to be squares near each end of the body where the 3 and 2 were for class markings. However the central raised bit is where the Zillertalbahn in white over a bkack background would be. That is more like an overcut glued on? There were some coloured variations notably white but these were probably specials. There were a,so a couple of Red Jubilee Specials one in 1983 the other in 1987. I doubt yours was one of them.

This is from the 1979-80 Catalogue. As you no doubt realise considerable changes have been made.
image.jpg
 
Paul2727

Paul2727

Registered
5 Jun 2018
294
England
The older versions from this period often came with a sticker sheet to alter the numbers. These still appear on e-bay occasionally.
 
jimmytrains_0

jimmytrains_0

Registered
16 Dec 2009
209
42
Ealing
you're teasing us with bits of evidence about your coach. The photos seem to show an early coach with no gates and chunky roof, narrower windows and the other versions people have found don't have the raised sides as they are smooth. My opinion is it is a second version 3007 about 1971 and has the larger rim wheels which were push to fit all original, does the coupling have a weight on a straight arm and clips in place?
The roof filaments are interesting as they weren't always used and sometimes supplied back to front.
The body is very like a 3009.
Dunnyrail has put forward the red versions from 1983 these come as 3007 and 3013 (the light blue steryalbahn) the latter being a Dining car, both bodies being used on the lehmann 100 year set , also both as a coach and a dining car in red or as a white and red dining car. These in my defence my lud do not have the Plaque under the centre windows.
Could your coach be an early Primus coach which would have been seen cheaper than tampering with an LGB this would be my evidence as the coach has a plaque in the centre and no indentation as in the 3013, early 3007 and similiar on 3062 / 3063 and 3064 bogie coaches of OBB, Pingazbahn, RHB, STLB and zillertal.
Just my thoughts, not very good at photographic evidence.
 
jimmytrains_0

jimmytrains_0

Registered
16 Dec 2009
209
42
Ealing
300730133013.jpg

Hopefully my attempt at showing a part of my ramblings has transfered properly: from left to right 3007 and 3013 and 3013. This is what I mean by gates, couplings and roof difference from the older roof, middle coach does not have vents on roof but is not smooth like the coach you are investigating.
 
jimmytrains_0

jimmytrains_0

Registered
16 Dec 2009
209
42
Ealing
me again, hopefully this time i can show an early coach with the road name and numbers indented.
zillertal early coach.jpg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,541
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Love this detective work, have been searching for my really early LGB Cats that I was looking at only the other day, hm..... However in my big pile is the what I think is 1977. Now the other pic that I posted from 1979 is a little indecisive, not helped by my slightly blurred pic but I think it does have gates. But this one in 1977 does not and the end panel is pretty well as shown In Blk’s pics. However when you bring in Primus that Ii have no source info for. The plot thickens.
D8E48363-7CE6-4FD4-A1BD-994D5AFD1ED9.jpeg
 
P

Paul M

Registered
25 Oct 2016
5,075
57
Royston
Looking at Jon's pictures. The original pictures for this thread showed the coaches having celestory windows on the roof, similar to the pictures 3011 and 3012
 
MTheStrong

MTheStrong

Registered
28 Oct 2009
1,372
68
Harwich
You used to be able to buy the clerestory as a separate item. It could be that a previous owner of the coach fitted one.
 
SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

Registered
3 Jan 2010
142
The only Primus coaches I've seen were planked (though with the correct narrow windows (and only one part open) . . .

1594453722949.png


my sixpennorth says it's a 3012 (lower picture) with a homemade clerestory - windows on the top rather than the sides! . . .

1594453590695.png


It has the correct narrow windows (and only one part open). The roof is wrong though. Are they interchangeable? The mystery is why the body shell has 3007 moulded on the end, when the 3007 clearly has wider windows (and two are part open)

Grist for the mill?

David
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,541
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
The only Primus coaches I've seen were planked (though with the correct narrow windows (and only one part open) . . .

View attachment 269895

my sixpennorth says it's a 3012 (lower picture) with a homemade clerestory - windows on the top rather than the sides! . . .

View attachment 269893

It has the correct narrow windows (and only one part open). The roof is wrong though. Are they interchangeable? The mystery is why the body shell has 3007 moulded on the end, when the 3007 clearly has wider windows (and two are part open)

Grist for the mill?

David
Indeed looking back at the original there appears to be raised beading on it as well, clearly Blowing out a 3007 for the sides. But it has 3007 in raised printing on the ends and the base body is all a single moulding. Curiouser and curiouser!
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,166
Tamworth, Staffs.
Could it be a 'cut and shut'? - I guess, as the roof is modified, the whole carriage could be a 'might have been' someone has made up from various parts?? :think:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,541
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Could it be a 'cut and shut'? - I guess, as the roof is modified, the whole carriage could be a 'might have been' someone has made up from various parts?? :think:
Not possible to be entirely sure without it in my sweaty little mit, but I do not think that the basic body has benn cut. As for the rest of it, well anything goes I guess.