USAT Hudson - Battery/RC

WKDOR

WKDOR

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26 Oct 2009
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I'm lucky enough to have just got one of these that looks (and weighs) great. It looks to be a low-mileage early model with its Phoenix 2k2 card and manual dated 2002. Are there any other identifiers as to which version/run it is? Or even a hidden serial number?

We're all Battery/RC and I'm looking for your experiences of converting this loco please. With previous (mainly Aristo) loco conversions I have ripped everything out and started over with all the controls in the tender. That might be very foolish with this one, where nearly everything is already built into the loco and tender. How much of the existing wiring can I retain?

Specific questions:

  • Battery voltage to haul 7 Heavyweights at a brisk but not reckless pace up to 2.5% gradient?
  • Physical location of main switch and charge socket, assuming batteries end up in the tender
  • If USAT don't provide a wiring diagram, does anyone have pin-outs for the six-pin connector cable - please?

Thanks in advance

Mike
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,997
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Tamworth, Staffs.
Have you got the USA Trains manual? - No wiring diagram, but useful for oiling points..


I 'lost' all my notes (well they are on a hard-drive which needs a new controller-board). But easy to bell-out, as they are Pickup (track), motor, and rear-light.
The Phoenix is in the tender, but I guess you have found that?
 
WKDOR

WKDOR

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Thanks Phil

Yes I have the manual thanks.

But no I didn't know the Phoenix was in the tender as I haven't opened it up yet. It sounds like the speaker is in the loco though. On second thoughts the 2K2 can't be in the tender because I got sounds to play with just the loco on the track i.e. no tender connection

Why do we need a motor connection to the tender?
 
Last edited:
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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Thanks Phil

Yes I have the manual thanks.

But no I didn't know the Phoenix was in the tender as I haven't opened it up yet. It sounds like the speaker is in the loco though. On second thoughts the 2K2 can't be in the tender because I got sounds to play with just the loco on the track i.e. no tender connection

Why do we need a motor connection to the tender?
More than likely for Track Pickup using the Tender Wheels if the Phoenix is in the Loco as you have devised by your Tenderless achievement of Sounds. What you could do if removing all the Track Pickups and a full rewrite for Battery Operation is to use those Connections (if they are a good solid reliable plug) for Battery Power from Tender to Loco. Give you plenty of space for the Batteries in the Tender. I would suggest 12-14 Aa NiMh Battery Pack would give you a good amount of power and likely 4-5 Hours of Running. But I am sure luminaries will debunk this.

I have amongst my collection of Battery Conversions a Box Motor with 2 American Diesel Bogies (not sure of the make but US sourced) and a Phoenix Sound Card using an Aristo Revolution System with just 12 Aa that easily gets that kind of duration.
 
WKDOR

WKDOR

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Thanks Jon

Yes I'm hoping to re-use the connector cable that looks reasonably robust.

More than likely for Track Pickup using the Tender Wheels if the Phoenix is in the Loco as you have devised by your Tenderless achievement of Sounds. What you could do if removing all the Track Pickups and a full rewrite for Battery Operation is to use those Connections (if they are a good solid reliable plug) for Battery Power from Tender to Loco. Give you plenty of space for the Batteries in the Tender. I would suggest 12-14 Aa NiMh Battery Pack would give you a good amount of power and likely 4-5 Hours of Running. But I am sure luminaries will debunk this.

I have amongst my collection of Battery Conversions a Box Motor with 2 American Diesel Bogies (not sure of the make but US sourced) and a Phoenix Sound Card using an Aristo Revolution System with just 12 Aa that easily gets that kind of duration.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,997
353
Tamworth, Staffs.
But no I didn't know the Phoenix was in the tender as I haven't opened it up yet.
Ah, that could be my bad (memory) then. :(
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,997
353
Tamworth, Staffs.
You won't get that sort of run-time from this loco..

It is 20Kgs of diecast loco.. A lot of weight to drag around! :nerd:
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,997
353
Tamworth, Staffs.
You won't get that sort of run-time from this loco..

It is 20Kgs of diecast loco.. A lot of weight to drag around! :nerd:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,677
284
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
You won't get that sort of run-time from this loco..

It is 20Kgs of diecast loco.. A lot of weight to drag around! :nerd:
That is a lot of weight - you sure?
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,495
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Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Regards voltage - check what the USAT motor and ancillaries require and the amps they are likely to draw under expected load conditions. One thing you may need to pay attention to is the continuous power output requirement, measured in watts (correct term Greg ?) of the ESC you are going to install if you have not done a conversion to such a heavy loco working with a heavy rake of cars.

I recently did a battery conversion to my all metal 1:20.3 scale Accucraft K-27 Mikado - heavy - which has a motor with a voltage rated up to 19v and pulls about 1.5-2 amps with a reasonable load on a level track. So I installed an 18v battery pack and the standard ESC as recommended by the supplier. However, the ESC supplier had not appreciated the weight of the loco/cars their equipment was being installed in/for until the loco was presented to them for a bit debugging. They had initially spec'ed a 30 watt ESC, although. Having seen the loco and appreciated its weight they suggested their next ESC up, a 100 watt version, would have probably been more appropriate. They very kindly gave me an undertaking that a replacement ESC to the higher spec' would be supplied FOC if the one installed blew.

You might find this useful Watts/Volts/Amps/Ohms conversion calculator when looking into evaluating your ESC needs. Max
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Weight: Engine = 25.5 lb, Tender = 12.5 lb, so 38 pounds / 17.2 kg is what I get from an owner... I can weigh mine this weekend if needed.

I have pictures (courtesy of Dave Bodnar) on this page under "disassembly"

4-6-4 Hudson

Regards, Greg
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Max: right! There is a famous situation with an R/C company here called AirWire... their ESC was sold as a "10 amp unit".... and people were blowing them up, often running 2 locos from one unit.

Well... the site actually said 120 watts, and indeed 10 amps at 12 volts is 120 watts, but NO ONE was running 12 volts!!, most were running 18 to 21 volt packs, and 10 amps at 18 volts is 180 watts and stuff blew up.

Greg
 
Tony Walsham

Tony Walsham

Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
25 Oct 2009
2,109
8
Casino, NSW
I would not be using AA's for that size (and weight) of loco.
AA cells are not designed for heavy consumption. Rather a max of 1/2 an amp for a longer time.
If you drag more than 1 amp from them they will do it, BUT you will definitely shorten their life span in terms of how many re-charges they can sustain.
 
Tony Walsham

Tony Walsham

Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
25 Oct 2009
2,109
8
Casino, NSW
Hello Mike.
I tested the # RELAY-5v in the GP-38-2 I have been working on over the weekend.
Passed with flying colours.



They will be available in a day or so and will be a fair bit less than the other version I have been using for years.
A$ 19 and as they will fit in the low cost Large Letter rate, they will be post free.

Instructions and wiring diagram HERE.

I wil try and get the USAT GP-38-2 battery R/C installation article ready in a day or so.
 
WKDOR

WKDOR

Registered
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Very Many Thanks Tony

I will be at the top of the queue for one of these.

All the best

Mike