STEAM TRAMS : is there much interest for them on here?

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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#1
In light of the highly successful thread:-

Trams: is there much interest for them on here?

https://www.gscalecentral.net/threa...y-interest-on-here.305868/page-18#post-499082

I thought that I would add a second similar one to split the Interest as Steam Trams are a very different interest though having some link to Electric Trams. I feel it may be helpful to find this Thread as a sort of repository for these Dragons. To get the ball rolling I include some pictures of Belgium Steam Trams in varying places and showing that there was little difference between Metre and Standard Gauge variants. Little like Electric Trams of new I guess.

This first batch of 5 pics are Standarg Gauge Steam Trams probably in and around Poulseur that kept its Steam Trams running to as late as 1966. There was a Quarry Line that needed this type of Locomotive Power thus the late survival. I cannot read the number on any of the pictures so this could be one of the SG variants of Type 11or 12. It is certainly not a type 10 as these had sloping inwards Side Skirts. So far as I can tell there were less then 20 SG Steam Trams in Belgium so this lines survival was quite remarkable. So sorry that I missed it.

Pic below clearly at Poulseur Station.
Somewhere along the line.

With a 4 wheel coach used for the Chef du Tren.



An Empty Quarry Train running along the Roadside demonstrating the need for a Steam Tram. Other pictures that I have seen show these Low Wagons being loaded with great big rough quarried Rocks.

We now move into unchartered waters location wise. The SNCV lines of Belgium were an extremely complex and National System and Steam Trams were spread around in all sorts of guises and locations. All the following Steam Trams are all Metre Gauge ones.

634 is a Franco-Belg built Type 7 built in 1912. Judging by the angle of the Window Box and Bodywork below this one has had a good old Bang somewhere.

408 is a Tubiz built Type 6 built in 1897.

Another picture of 408 showing that these machines were certainly not afraid to be seen under the wires.

I cannot read the number on this print. All I can add is that there was at least colliery that was using MG Steam Trams in the 60's possibly even into the 70's. This one could certainly be at that location. Of interest are the SG Wagons on Rollwagen which was certainly the case at the Colliery I have in my mind.

Another view where the Number and hence Type of the Locomotive I cannot state. But this picture is of interest as it shows what would have been a typical Steam Tram hauled Vicinal Passenger Train. Quite possibly taken between WW1 and 2. The Coaches appear to be 4 wheel Centre-platform ones, all bar 1 of which had all been adapted for Electric Traction use by 1931. There centre of operation would appear to have been for cross-border traffic betwen Belgium and France. There are 3 of the Coaches and a Van on this Train. It certainly looks to be considerably longer, but these were quite long for 4 wheelers.
I have delved freelyin the following 2 publications for my Notations behind these Pictures.

The Belgium Vicinal Tram & Light Rail Fleet 1885-1991 by Dirk Eveleens Maarse
The Vicinal Story by WJK Davies
 
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Paul M

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#2
I hope so, I'm now looking forward to seeing some pictures!:)
 
G-force1

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#4
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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#5
I doubt there are many in the U.K. I only know of one, currently none operational and also an untypical example.
https://www.tramway.co.uk/trams/new-south-wales-47/
That is a very strange statement to make in what I hope to be a well researched and knowledge thread. Do you mean existing, restored working past or present?

I know of 3 in the UK possibly more still in existence. Ireland has some surprises as well so more pics in good time. However in History there were many Steam Tram lines, hence the new Roundhouse Steam Tram very British in look.

This 3ft Gauge baby not operational and is in Hull Museum. Though an Irish Locomotive it is very typical of the English Steam Tram.
 
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Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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#6
That is a very strange statement to make in what I hope to be a well researched and knowledge thread. Do you mean existing, restored working past or present?

I know of 3 in the UK possibly more still in existence. Ireland has some surprises as well so more pics in good time. However in History there were many Steam Tram lines, hence the new Roundhouse Steam Tram very British in look.
This 3ft Gauge baby not operational and is in Hull Museum. Though an Irish Locomotive it is very typical of the English Steam Tram.
Apologies for any confusion.
I was referring to existing examples and had forgotten about Ireland! :eek: I agree that there were a fair few in the U.K. but I'm still of the opinion that very few have survived and of those that have not all are typical. On reflection, if you include the non powered trailers, there may be more than I realised.
 
Miamigo259

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#7
There is still a project based at the Nene Valley Railway involved in utilising one of the Cockerill Vertical Boilered locos, imported from Belgium several years ago, to produce a replica of one of the GER/LNER/BR Tram Engines.
I saw something about it on another website and the partially completed bodywork appeared to be visible in the shed at Wansford when I went there for the Class 31 60th anniversary event there last October. I believe there has been a lengthy pause in the construction, but work is expected to restart soon.
 
Gizzy

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#8
There is still a project based at the Nene Valley Railway involved in utilising one of the Cockerill Vertical Boilered locos, imported from Belgium several years ago, to produce a replica of one of the GER/LNER/BR Tram Engines.
I saw something about it on another website and the partially completed bodywork appeared to be visible in the shed at Wansford when I went there for the Class 31 60th anniversary event there last October. I believe there has been a lengthy pause in the construction, but work is expected to restart soon.
There is a Cockerill at the Middleton Railway in Leeds....
 
Lobethalbahn2

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#11
Interesting! Where is Wellegong? (See Crich Tramways Site). Do they mean Wollongong? I'd have thought that a bit far south to be Sydney's jurisdiction. Can our Ozzy members throw some light please?
It is a typo, it should read Wollongong. Clifton and Wollongong are in the Illawarra region to the south of Sydney. It appears that it was used as contractors locomotive for railway construction. The steam trams that were far more successful (as the article indicates) were the Baldwin variety of which a number have been preserved. These operated in Sydney and later in other locations such as Broken Hill. Argyle Locomotive Works has a live steam version coming in gauge 1 (1/32 - 45mm gauge).

http://www.argyleloco.com.au/Argyle_AccAUS_BaldwinSteamTram_2015.pdf
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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#12
Apologies for any confusion.
I was referring to existing examples and had forgotten about Ireland! :eek: I agree that there were a fair few in the U.K. but I'm still of the opinion that very few have survived and of those that have not all are typical. On reflection, if you include the non powered trailers, there may be more than I realised.
Many thanks, was going to make this as has been the Trams thread one about past and present, though present in UK for Steam Trams is almost but not quite non existent.
JonD
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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#13
There is still a project based at the Nene Valley Railway involved in utilising one of the Cockerill Vertical Boilered locos, imported from Belgium several years ago, to produce a replica of one of the GER/LNER/BR Tram Engines.
I saw something about it on another website and the partially completed bodywork appeared to be visible in the shed at Wansford when I went there for the Class 31 60th anniversary event there last October. I believe there has been a lengthy pause in the construction, but work is expected to restart soon.
There is also a (Diesel I think) replica of a J70/Y6 on the Severn Valley, I last saw it in a road with a bunch of Wagons at Bewdoey. Anyone have a picture of it to post?
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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#14
It is a typo, it should read Wollongong. Clifton and Wollongong are in the Illawarra region to the south of Sydney. It appears that it was used as contractors locomotive for railway construction. The steam trams that were far more successful (as the article indicates) were the Baldwin variety of which a number have been preserved. These operated in Sydney and later in other locations such as Broken Hill. Argyle Locomotive Works has a live steam version coming in gauge 1 (1/32 - 45mm gauge).

http://www.argyleloco.com.au/Argyle_AccAUS_BaldwinSteamTram_2015.pdf
Wow that looks a beauty, very different to the UK perception of a Steam Tram or Dummy to our US Cousins.
 
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Paul M

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#15
It does seem a shame that although a great many railway locos were saved from the scrappy, trams weren't. Maybe because most of the steam hauled tramlines were shut a good few years before Beeching did his worse and people weren't so nostalgic about them.
 
Lobethalbahn2

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#16
For more information on Sydney steam trams follow the link below to this issue of the Sydney Tramway Museum's "Trolley Wire" which gives a comprehensive overview of the system.

https://www.sydneytramwaymuseum.com.au/members.old/Trolley_Wire/145 - Trolley Wire - Apr 1973.pdf

The museum has digitised and made available for free download a large number of back issues of "Trolley Wire", so if you are looking for some interesting reading go here:

http://www.sydneytramwaymuseum.com.au/library/trolley-wire/

The Sydney tram network was extensive, with electric trams replacing steam from around the turn of the twentieth century. The city tram sheds were actually located where the Sydney Opera House now sits. Trams were removed from Sydney in the late '50s but have been slowly returning in the last couple of decades.
 
Lobethalbahn2

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#17
Lobethalbahn2

Lobethalbahn2

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#19
Restored Baldwin Steam tram at Valley Heights NSW:


Snap JonD- you must have hit post at the same time! So here's another:

 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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#20
Another Vid of some English NOW Steam Trams. One I was aware of at Telford now Horsehay, the other at Far Ings Farm that was entirely new to me. Just goes to show you do not know what you do not Know! Also,on this delightful vid some other views of recent Steam Trams from other parts of the globe.