Roundhouse Russell Fitting a SloMo to him and previous Problems him UPDATED THREAD NAME

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Just recently I have been worrying about my Russell that has not been capable of running for year or two now. It would be rather nice to use it for the Christmas Day Milk Train this year. In point of fact the last Time I recall running with any degree of usefulness was at the Ruscbahn in 2013, though I may have had a run or two on my current line since then. Memory what a problem?

Now I consider myself to be a reasonable dab hand with Live Steam, not in Tag’s league but with a mediocre level of incompetence. So Russell has been a problem, not being able to supply Steam to the Cylinders, thus just not running at all. I think I asked Roundhouse about it at Warley Show some 4 years ago. Hmm needs to be sorted. So off came the Body and I started to faff around. To be honest the only thing that I found amiss was the Wire from the Servo to the Regulator that was not allowing full movement and thus opening of the Regulator. In the past the Regulator was a little reluctant to close thus stopping required a little bit of Reverce Gear. So after some adjustments and testing with the RC to see if the Regulator was now working all appeared fine. Oh I also forgot to mention that somehow I had inadvertently flogged the Planet RC Unit! So I had a Fosworks Setup in stock and he is now sporting a Fosworks OMNI TX 3-0, now standard on my 3 Roundhouse Live Steam Loks..

Jack was painted up by Geoff Monday in 2006, has a Chuffer Pipe and I collected it from a guy in Nottingham after a winning EBAY bid at around £1200. Now that he is running again this seams to be a pretty good deal. Pic on the shelf this morning.
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And a short Vid of him Running the other day after the fix.


As can be seen a common trait with Live Steam, slow steady running is a little tricky. Even harder when trying to drive a Camera while doing a Vid. Thus Russell is slated to be fitted up with a SloMo at the earliest opportunity. I am assuming this should be possible as PPS does one now for the Lady Ann. But as with my old Jack the Weight Bar is a Pin Fitted Curves one that makes fitting a SloMo less than the easiest of Jobs. But it must be done.
 
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Jon, when was the last time you had a thorough boiler cleanout? And I MEAN thorough, with a good descaler that is brought up to the boil and then emptied out after ten minutes - once or twice or even more. Your old loco might just be getting a touch of asthma brought on by reduced volume of piping and a furry lining to the boiler, even using the very best of rainwater. I cook up a boiler-full of the cheapest vinegar I can find in every one of my boilers - once a year - even though I have a laboratory-grade distiller to provide glurn-free water for me.

Do thou likewise.
 
Tac, that sound like good advise, would it be possible for you to elaborate on the exact procedure that you use? For example, is it ordinary brown vinegar, or white, ? How long do you leave it in the engine? Do you flush it out afterwards?
Any more details would be greatly received by many of us with steamers, my Roundhouse Lady Anne is about 18 years old and still goes ok but may benefit from some attention.
Thanks in anticipation
Dave
 
tac foley said:
Jon, when was the last time you had a thorough boiler cleanout? And I MEAN thorough, with a good descaler that is brought up to the boil and then emptied out after ten minutes - once or twice or even more. Your old loco might just be getting a touch of asthma brought on by reduced volume of piping and a furry lining to the boiler, even using the very best of rainwater. I cook up a boiler-full of the cheapest vinegar I can find in every one of my boilers - once a year - even though I have a laboratory-grade distiller to provide glurn-free water for me.

Do thou likewise.
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Never, I am unsure about that process and would like some further advice from other 16milers that I know.

It is fairly normal to Pickle Recently Silver Soldered Boilers and fittings with a mild substance such as Vinegar. Though I am not sure about cooking the vinegar in the Boiler, though I can see that would get to every part. It is just the cleanup and getting Oil cleanly into the cylinders after. It is also a worry with some Locomotives that may have Viton O rings in varying places as I am unsure what the Vinegar would do to them.

Jury is out for Judgement at the moment.
 
The vintage of the vinegar is immaterial - cheapest is best, unless you want to re-use it on your chips afterwards. Pour it in, fire it up to get it good and hot, swish it round a few times, and then pour it out. Sure, flush it out a couple of times. It's not rocket science. And it doesn't go anywhere near your pistons.

I've been doing it for thirty-forty years.

My locos work as advertised.
 
Apart from the boiler clean out which I would recommend it seems to perform ok, the only problem I can see is that it is light on it's feet.
two choices, reduce the load or try and add some extra weight in the loco, as with all loco's it's a case of getting to know your charge, just like the fullsize loco's
they all have their foibles.

Shaun
 
'zackly. You may have noticed that in one of the Roundhouse Open Day movies on YT that what looks like a Lady Ann(e] is hauling a 20-something pound load around the test track. Sure, being an 0-6-0 is all traction, but I've not seen a RH loco that didn't pull like a, uh, train. Perhaps, for Dunnyrail, an adjustment to the springing of the truck might lead to better performance. As he suggests, fitting a Slo-Mo device might do the trick. Certainly, Chris Bird's locos seem to benefit from the fitting thereof.
 
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That spiral is on a 1:40 Grade and a 1:30 bit at the end so the performance is fine with that load of 20 Axles all Metal Wheels. Certainly a RH Loco other than an 0-4-0 will never have the same performance, my now sold Fowler 0-6-2 with great lumpy Bogie Tender had nothing like the grunt of my Jack or Stanley Steam Tram. As for extra weight, Russell has a couple of socking great lumps of Metal screwed onto the cosmetic Side Tanks already. A SloMo as Tac says will certainly improve the pulling performance as controlled slower running will always help prevent slipping.
 
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I guess he needs the constant level of blow-off to make sure of having enough pough for those grades. They seem pretty stiff to me, and I'd only use that kind of grade with a geared loco.
 
Rhos Helyg Loco Works said:
The video shows the safety valve venting almost continuously. What pressure is shown on the gauge when the safety valve *starts* to lift?
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40 PSI. RH Loco’s are notoriously tricky to keep at a non-blow off rate as the Gas gets warmer during running effectively meaning that regular adjustment to the Burner Valve is necessary, somewhat tricky whilst trying to film! I have known some guys convert the Gas Regulator to be Operated from a Servo thus making adjustments during running somewhat easier. Hmm well I guess you can imagine my ideas about that.

As for the Gradient, it is on the Continuous (not used that often) run and the 1:30 was a foul up, the 1:40 not much choice in a modest sized Garden to get the loop in so that Trains can turn over where they have just come from with adequate clearance. Horses for courses, the Gradients do though make the Locomotives work as the Chuff Pipe demonstrates and to be honest I would not have a Train much larger than that shown as it would be an issue at some of my Stations.
 
Out of interest does the loco have all wheels flanged or is it like most RH 0-6-0 loco's the centre wheels unflanged, this being the case this might affect the adhesion of the loco especially if the wheels are unsprung.
You say that it already has weights fitted do you know what material they are? might be an idea to replace them with lead, or add some more between the frames it might gain a bit more adhesion.

Shaun
 
dunnyrail said:
40 PSI.
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Nowt wrong with that then.

Perhaps I'm being dense, but when you say "not being able to supply Steam to the Cylinders" do you mean that, in that the loco stalls, or do you mean it slips?

If the former, I'd remove the chuff pipe (creates unnecessary back pressure in my view, although others disagree), disconnect the regulator r/c and run it in "manual" mode. It could be the regulator is not opening far enough (wrong type of regulator maybe?) due to restriction by the servo link.

If the latter, add weight or reduce the load!
 
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Rhos Helyg Loco Works said:
Nowt wrong with that then.

Perhaps I'm being dense, but when you say "not being able to supply Steam to the Cylinders" do you mean that, in that the loco stalls, or do you mean it slips?

If the former, I'd remove the chuff pipe (creates unnecessary back pressure in my view, although others disagree), disconnect the regulator r/c and run it in "manual" mode. It could be the regulator is not opening far enough (wrong type of regulator maybe?) due to restriction by the servo link.

If the latter, add weight or reduce the load!
Click to expand...
The Regulator was I thought originally opening but no steam getting to the cylinders. Thus not moving at all. As I said I think that the Regulator was just not opening at all with perhaps the Wire from the servo just bending. I think originally I may have been just not taking notice of what was or not was going on. Only when I was further looking at it last week with diligence did I think that the Regulator was not being opened properly. Thus leading to a fix. As for the Chuff Pipe causing back pressure to effect running, this is not the case in my view. All 3 of my RH Locomotives have them the only issue was occasional tricky lighting up on my Jack which was resolved when the Chuffer was remounted some months back.
 
Further to Tac’s comments about cleaning Boilers with Vinegar. On Saturday I managed to chat to one of the Roundhouse team who said that the suggestion was sound and that it should not damage any of the O Rings. Suggesting making sure that all was well flushed with clean water after, this would of course mean a water that is not in any way Hard. However he was non commit all about brewing up the Vinegar in the Boiler.
 
So returning to Russell after having some success with my RH Jack using the vinegar cleaning option, it was was the time for Jack. Put around 50-60 ml in the boler and gave it a good old shake about leaving for a good 1/2 hour before cleaning out. After that I noticed that the regulator arm was not allowing full travel so some minor adjustments with that and we were all set for a steam test. First test smelt a little vinegary not to be surprised I guess but that will no doubt have helped clean out any gunk in the steam lines a and cylinders. What a transformation, running smoothly and no problem with top end or low end speed. Mid range somewhat tricky to keep to as is the norm with a RH loco, after this success I am thinking of investing in a SloMo for him (her) so that all my RH locs are thus fitted meaning good controllable running and shunting. I had another fool length Steaming just to ensure that the system was well cleaned out after this clean up.

There has recently post by Tac with a little bit of info about how Walschaerts Gear tells you which way the engine is going. Well though this RH gear not a proper Walschaerts set but a look alike as it works somewhat differently, certainly it conforms to LNER Pacifics in its look as the following pics will show.

Note below the Radius Bar is at the top of the Expansion Link indication that the loc is about to set back from the Hopper Wagon.
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Note below the Radius Bar is at the bottom of the Expansion Link indication that the Loc has just run forwards into the Platform.
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Though Russell was a transformed man after the sundry output previously covered in this thread, the slow speed running was a big issue for me. Plus he was very apt at running away on the slightest grade with no steam on. So I have invested in a SloMo, my other 2 Roundhouse locs run very well with them so it was time. In truth I had to wait till the correct type was available and as the chassis is a lengthened Lady Anne one, once this type was available it was time to ponder. I think it has taken me 2-3 years to get round to ordering one but it arrived just before Xmas.

Note the brass chassis strengthening bits, alun key and RH Axle provided. That axle differs slightly from the vid but no matter the process it all works out in the end. You just dont get a short bit of brass for your spares box.
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This arrival prompted an order to Roundhouse for a replacement set of rear wheels and blind centre wheels as Russell had been converted to Insulated Wheel sets, now as my line is Dead Rail this is not an issue any more. In truth the SloMo for Lady Anne will not fit Insulated RH wheels wheras my originals on Jack and my Stanley Steam Tram do.

The RH wheels were pre sprayed black and a dash of brown. I pre oiled the inside of the bearing and screw so as not to gum up anything with the spray process.

I cannot say any more about the fit as SSP’s vid says it all. However the body removal on Russell is somewhat different with screws either side between the Cylinder and Smokebox thus.
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SSP suggest that there is a gear inside the removable plate under the SloMo, but on mine there appear to be 3 green bands of some sort. I assume they will be man enough for the job over time and will try to find out what they are at some stage. I also assume as there are no notes that it would not be advisable to do any lubrication inside the SloMo. Again I will try to research this.
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Once the plate had been fitted the job was done and all ready for testing. But rain on and off today may preclude that, I could test it in my workshop but elect not to as there are too many steel parts within just waiting for an excuse to go rusty. So here he is waiting for the test run with sundry other jobs next in line. And yes the torch was to find a dropped screw under the Workbench.
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I am not sure if others in here have tried a SloMo, I have to say fitting to a modern loco with straight weight bar is nothing to fear except perhaps fear itself. But if you are not confident then there are bods who repair live steam out there that would likely do the job for you. tac foley tac foley of this forum could give you a contact of one I am sure.

However this loco whilst having a curved weight bar presents no problems as it is located in front of the SloMo, but on my old Jack needed to be bodged a little. Pic below shows weight bar for those unfamiliar with what one is.
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So I could not wait to test the beast, happy to say it all works well as the attached vid shows. However whilst top speed is good in forwards gear, reverse has some issues. If you look at the vid carefully at 1.20 you can see that the gear is not fully set. This is nothing to do with the SloMo or its fitting but an issue with the Forward/Reverse Servo that will be attended to in the next day or two. I am very happy now with the control, stop starts easily achieved without any dashing off like a scalded cat. From full forward speed to full stop on turning the regulator to nowt takes about a yard of run which is good and just what you would expect from a controlled puffer. Shunting will be easily achieved with slow move to kiss the buffers as on my other 2 Roundhouse locs. Neither is there the pronounced whine that the other SloMos have, I guess tgis is much to do with the Russell one being in an enclosed box. Magic.
 
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