Rail Clamps or just Joiners ??

[DRG11]

Hi All,
I will hopefully laying track in the garden soon & am not sure if Rail Clamps are required ???
Im using Aristocraft & Lgb track...the question is are the Aristcraft track screws enough to maintain electrical contact or would you suggest using Rail Clamps ??

Many thanks for any help you can give

 

[steve parberry]

I know others have had issues, but i have just relied on the screws for five years now without problems but i did also use the graphite grease as well....

 

[Mikado]

I also have used a combination of Aristo screw and graphite grease and have had not one problem over 8 years.
I have drilled and screwed the LGB turnouts where they join the aristo, it is not necessary to tap the holes the screws will cut their own thread in the softer brass.

 

[dutchelm]

My track has been down for 13 years now and the Aristo screws sometimes play up. You tighten them up & then find them loose again. Any problems now & I remove the joiners & replace with rail clamps, mainly Massoth.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Personally I've not had to use clamps except for using insulated clamps in a couple of places where the usual insulated rail joiners were a bit loose and didn't maintain the rail alignment accurately enough. Generally the plain track has been fine simply using the rail joiners and a little graphite grease - NOT for any supposed electrical conductivity (I put a meter across it and it doesn't conduct!), but just to keep water out.

Some folk recommend using clamps for points if not for the plain track, simply to make it easier to remove the points for maintenance. I can certainly see the logic in that and will fit clamps as and when my points need to come up for fettling.

I guess it also depends how much your track moves when the temperature changes. A little movement may loosen up the joints over time, but on the other hand may also help to self-clean the inside of the fishplates. My fear with long stretches of clamped track would be that there's no allowance for expansion and you may get warping as is sometimes seen on poorly maintained full-sized track!

 

[ped]

Afternoon all,My track has been down for 4years now,mixture of LGB and Aristo i have only used screws with graphite paste as a water repellent no problems so far.

 

[jameshilton]

I looked for an answer when I started and the jury is mixed. I'd say for a UK regular size garden line, you can be fine without - and you can always retrofit over the joiner types at a later date.

Knowing what I know now, I'd definitely use them on my points incase I ever needed to lift these out for maintenance - but that's the only place.

 

[matthew]

Ours has in its 4th year down now, and we used a mixture of the Aristo track screws and normal LGB Joiners, didn't even know about the graphite paste at the time so we didn't use that. I usually just go around all of the track screws at the start of the year and tighten them all up, then they stay fine until the next year...

On the most part it still runs perfectly, although it also depends on whether your going to be fixing your track to a solid base or just loose gravel/grass.

 

[beavercreek]

Well....I have had most of the line down now for about 5 years and this is what I have found.
I use LGB and Aristo track.

Aristo track when using the screws has been fine with just a little tightening up on a couple of joins needed from time to time.

LGB has caused a few probs in some places after a few bad winters with just joiners (and even with using graphite paste) so these 'problems' have had to be clamped. I have used over-joiner clamps (San-val, Split-jaw or Hillman) where raising the track would have meant too much upheaval. The Sanval ones are cheap from ebay seller 'ana.kramer' when buying a whole load. They are stainless steel, tighten from above but are not pretty so are best used in the out of the way places where they will be out of view. The Hillmans and Split-jaws are great, don't look too obtrusive but do tighten from the side so make sure that you have enough clearance to get the torx bit in.

Where track could be lifted easily, or newly laid, I have used Hillman, Massoth and the new Aristocraft brass clamps (ART 11930). I have found that the Massoth brass and Aristo brass clamps to be best for me, especially with flexi-track as they tighten from the top unlike the Hillmans which, as I said earlier, can be a bit of a faff to tighten if the track is running close to rocks, buildings etc.

 

[Gizzy]

LGB track has been down for 12 years, using Copper Slip in the joiners (Half a pea size), with very few problems. If I get a dodgey joint, I clean up the fishplate, tighten it up and regrease.

Track is laid on 5 mm sharp shingle, which drains well. I used the 'dog bone' joiners on the curves, but not the straights. This is more to stop the curves pulling apart rather than for electrical continuity.


I would use clamps or drill and tap if I needed to, but so far it's not been necessary in my case....

 

[mike]

clamps all the way.. remove the fishplates on points, so as to aid removel for maintances
elasewere, its clamps!

 

[jameshilton]

If lines run well with and without then I'd definitely save the money. There are too many of us without problems for the huge outlay... and as Mike says and I said, over the joiner clamps are available for any future troublesome spots.

Saving money = more on trains or more track!!

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm another for just fishplates and Graphite paste. Just over a year now with no issues.

 

[alecescolme]

May I suggest soldering jump leads to help conductivity. The cost is very small only £12 for a 80w iron.

Alec

 

[3Valve]

My last line was laid using the standard fishplates and graphite paste. Was down for 7 years with very very few problems. The odd tightening up and/or re-greasing of a fishplate here and there.

I am of the Mike fraternity when it comes to points though. fishplates off, clamps on, easy to remove for maintenance. Especially if yer track is screwed down.

 

[ge_rik]

May I suggest soldering jump leads to help conductivity. The cost is very small only £12 for a 80w iron.
Alec

Jumper leads for me too. I use a 75w iron and I've found that to be meaty enough for the job - even one Boxing Day when the ambient temperature rose no higher than -1 (I suppose that's what you call dedication!).

http://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2006/05/how-did-i-bond-rails.html < Link To

Incidentally, I've used a mix of Aristo, LGB and Tenmille track with LGB rail joiners without problem.

http://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2008/12/progress-report-17-peckforton-station.html < Link To

Rik

 

[tramcar trev]

I have soldered all my joints. A few came apart presumably due to thermal stress. I had to solder on some "fish plates" and that seems to have worked a treat. If I need to remove or replace it will be by removing the rail with a dremel with metal cutting blade.... This was a bit of work but I have no voltage drop due to poor connections and that was my rationale for soldering the joints. Work it out, just say a .1ohm loss at each joint soon mounts up.
Of course if your not running current through the rails it dosne't matter....

 

[Martino]

I guess it depends on how your track is laid, on what, and what your weather is like. I use clamps. Got rid of the fishplates. Don't even think about jumper cables. Very rarely have any problems (despite turtles, dogs and quite large temerature and humidity swings) and if I do have a dodgy joint it's easy to fix. Also makes changing track easy if needed.

Each to his own of course, but clamps work for me. I've used split jaw, AMS and train li. They all have pros and cons. Train li seem to have the edge for ease, reliability and the ability to blend in.

My track floats in ballast or runs on top of concrete blocks, and with the high temperatures in direct sunlight there can be some interesting expansion. The clamps make life easy.

 

[Rhinochugger]

This just goes to prove that there are a hundred and one ways of killing a cat.

This was an area that I didn't pay much attention to when I started, and just whacked the track down. Aristo track screwed fishplates are fine.

After about 5 years I found the odd one or two that needed tightening.

I also had a few lengths of LGB, and a few places where I had cut track but didn't bother to spend money on all the stuff to drill new holes.

Up to the 5 year point, I used LGB fishplates, slightly squeezed, to cover all these odd joints. After a couple of post-winter continuity issues, generally sorted but requiring an occasional bit of effort, I have used clamps for these odd joints, but Aristo to Aristo (or to the USAT turnout) is still with the grub screws, and the trains still go round.

 

[maxi-model]

I guess it depends on how your track is laid, on what, and what your weather is like. I use clamps. Got rid of the fishplates. Don't even think about jumper cables. Very rarely have any problems (despite turtles, dogs and quite large temerature and humidity swings) and if I do have a dodgy joint it's easy to fix. Also makes changing track easy if needed.

Each to his own of course, but clamps work for me. I've used split jaw, AMS and train li. They all have pros and cons. Train li seem to have the edge for ease, reliability and the ability to blend in.

My track floats in ballast or runs on top of concrete blocks, and with the high temperatures in direct sunlight there can be some interesting expansion. The clamps make life easy.

I would go with most of the above. Its down to how you choose to lay your track . I use a mix of fishplates alone and clamps. However I use the "over joiner" type clamp so I do not need to spend time disfiguring expensive set track.
The joiners come into their own where I have a serious incline and the track is at risk of being gradualy "hammered" apart with each passing heavy loco, its laid floating onto the balast. They are also great for stabilising the track geometry around (complex) pointwork and crossovers.
With regards to conductivity, that should be addressed at least by the use of some form of conductivity paste applied to the fishplates and/or joiners or by the soldered bonding method.

Don't forget it's not just the track joints you need to proof against the elements long term. Remember, if the attachments are not soldered, to use a conductivity paste on where the power cables attach to the rails and any other electrical connections that are left outside, or even inside if the surroundings are not stable dry and warm.

Max