Power for LGB points and 1203 supplementary switch

P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
I've been trying some more electrification on the Loch Down Railway. At the moment, I use Playmobil manual isolating switches to park a loco on a siding, but as I have some LGB 10153 single isolating track and some LGB 1203 supplementary switches I thought I'd try a set up with these.

Basically, this involves a piece of split track on the siding connected to a 1203 supplementary switch on the point motor. Setting the points for the siding allows the loco to go beyond the isolating track, after which it is stopped and the point set back to the main line; the loco is now isolated until the points are changed again.

However, whichever point motor I try this with, although the idea works, the throw of the point at times stops short and the point motor buzzes and because the point has stopped short, the siding isn't isolated.

I thought at first that the point motor I was using was faulty, but having tried with another point motor, the same thing happens but both motors are fine just with the point.

I've noticed, too, that the point only fails to work fully when the point motor is "pushing", as it were, so with a right hand point, the problem occurs returning the point to the main line.

I'm using a Playmobil controller which gives a maximum of 14v on the auxiliary output, and I'm wondering if this is too low for the point motor plus supplementary switch.
 
korm kormsen

korm kormsen

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,574
261
the transformers, i have, do supply 16V-AC. (some say, 18V-AC is better)

but something, i found out by accident:
for some - to me - unknown reason, the switchmotors have more force in one direction than in the other. So, just install the switch-motor on the other side of the switch. Sometimes it helps.
Make sure, the switch has a flat underground.
Don't hook these switch-lamps to the switch-motors, they work like a brake.

or, as last resort: use two switch-motors. one to move the switch/turnout, one to move the supplemental switch.
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,701
130
N Somerset
Check the point motor is adjusted centrally. I have known them to "jump a cog" and go out of adjustment. Check that there is a bit of slack on each position. If tight at one end lift the lid of and centralise the rack.
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
the transformers, i have, do supply 16V-AC. (some say, 18V-AC is better)

but something, i found out by accident:
for some - to me - unknown reason, the switchmotors have more force in one direction than in the other. So, just install the switch-motor on the other side of the switch. Sometimes it helps.
Make sure, the switch has a flat underground.
Don't hook these switch-lamps to the switch-motors, they work like a brake.

or, as last resort: use two switch-motors. one to move the switch/turnout, one to move the supplemental switch.

Thank you for the advice korm.

Switching the point motor to the other side made no difference and neither did using a different point motor.

The track is inside on artificial grass (stiff) on top of a carpet. I've put a stiff piece of card under the point, but no improvement.
I'd heard about the problem with point lanterns so not thinking of using those.

I shall look at a bit of WD40 on the 1203s tomorrow.
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
Check the point motor is adjusted centrally. I have known them to "jump a cog" and go out of adjustment. Check that there is a bit of slack on each position. If tight at one end lift the lid of and centralise the rack.

Thanks for that tip, Mike. The point motor was whirring a bit when going one way and having switched the track on the side that was moving fully. Checked and fiddled around, and that doesn't happen now, but point motor and switch still don't get on.

I shall look into using a squirt of WD40 on the 1203 tomorrow.
 
Gizzy

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
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Sometimes you need a little more Oomph when using those supplementary switches on point motors.

On LGB I, I adjusted the timing pulse from my MTS to a half second by changing a CV.

On analogue, I assume you are using your Playmo Power Supply at 14 V AC and then using diodes to half wave rectify the switched output to your point motor. You will get a small voltage drop of 0.6 V, so I would suggest Korm's idea of using a slightly higher voltage of 16-18 V ac might be the solution to your problem....
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
I've just had an idea. Currently, the point motor is operating two switches in the 1203. If I take out the one not being used that might help.

I'll give it a try tomorrow.
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
Sometimes you need a little more Oomph when using those supplementary switches on point motors.

On LGB I, I adjusted the timing pulse from my MTS to a half second by changing a CV.

On analogue, I assume you are using your Playmo Power Supply at 14 V AC and then using diodes to half wave rectify the switched output to your point motor. You will get a small voltage drop of 0.6 V, so I would suggest Korm's idea of using a slightly higher voltage of 16-18 V ac might be the solution to your problem....

Yes, I'm using a Playmobil controller feeding into an LGB 5075. I also have an LGB 51750 unit. I don't know whether these use diodes or not.
 
Gizzy

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
33,710
1,676
60
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
Yes, I'm using a Playmobil controller feeding into an LGB 5075. I also have an LGB 51750 unit. I don't know whether these use diodes or not.
Yes they have the diodes built in, so you will get a voltage drop.

It might help removing one of the microswitches in the 1205 supplementary switch but I doubt it? However, nothing ventured, nothing gained, so give it a try....
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
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N Somerset
To get reliable operation you need 18v before you half wave rectify it. You only finish up with 9v after the rectifier.
To test the point just put a 9v battery across the coil. It should operate correctly at that voltage. Reverse the battery to make it go the other way.
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
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North Yorks
I've wrestled out one of the switches in the 1203 (it's not a change that is reversible), fitted it to the point motor and tried it and, bingo!, it works with a good, solid "clunk" in each direction.

Three more sidings to sort out.

Many thanks for the advice and suggestions.
 
D

Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
341
32
Eastern MA
To make sure the EPL drives are 'snappier" I use the LGB booster with the 5075/51750's. And I have 18 volts AC to the booster. 14 volts is not enough.
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
To make sure the EPL drives are 'snappier" I use the LGB booster with the 5075/51750's. And I have 18 volts AC to the booster. 14 volts is not enough.

It works fine for my modified single switch 1203.
 
R

Railway42

LGB, Radio Control Model Boat, Electronics
28 Feb 2013
426
48
Cheddar
For reliable operation you need 18 volts AC then a diode. LGB diodes looses .7 of a volt giving you 17.3 on the point motor if you replace the diode with a Schottky diode the diode will loose only .4 of a volt giving you 17.6 volts on the motor. if the motor pulls better one way take the top of the motor and centralise the motor, ie pin facing up and the control arm in the centre.
 
P

playmofire

Registered
23 Oct 2010
7,096
744
North Yorks
For reliable operation you need 18 volts AC then a diode. LGB diodes looses .7 of a volt giving you 17.3 on the point motor if you replace the diode with a Schottky diode the diode will loose only .4 of a volt giving you 17.6 volts on the motor. if the motor pulls better one way take the top of the motor and centralise the motor, ie pin facing up and the control arm in the centre.

I'm using an LGB 5075 control box which has the diodes built in. My train controller is 16v for the track and 14v for the auxiliaries and that's what I have to work with.

The points on one side are not closing by about no more than a couple of millimetres and centralising the point motor only seems to move the gap to the other side. The fact that the both sets of points work fine without the 1203 fitted seems to suggest that they are centralised and that it is the extra drag of the 1203 that is causing the problem and removing one of the switches from the 1203 solves the problem for my fairly basic system.