Planning an indoor railway and trying to convert from 1960s UK 00 to 16mm in the US!

Martino

Martino

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Some of you may remember the South Buckinghamshire Light Railway that was a 15mm/ft railway built at ground level in Florida. Since moving to a mountain in Georgia I’ve been struggling to find somewhere flat to build a new version. I’s not going to happen! However, I have pretty large basement and have decided to try and build an indoor railway. The main area chosen is some 27’ x 9’, but I can go outside of this for a fiddle yard. I’m proposing to use a track plan similar to the terminal plan in Peco’s 1974 Track Plans. Just up sizing from 00 to 15mm by doubling everything! That should work.

Now…..the last time I built an indoor railway was back in the UK in the ‘60s/‘70s, and that was 00. I used 2”x 1” framing with hardboard or sundeala as a top. My questions are….

1. Will such a baseboard construction be OK for our larger track and stock, with increase in weight etc?
2. What would you all suggest as a top? I presume Sundeala is not available in the US, so I’m guessing hardboard. What sort of thickness would you recomend?
3. Is MDF or Fiberboard any good?

I’d appreciate being guided in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance

Martin
 
I would stick with similar frames but use MDF for the top.
 
How deep are you going, back to front?

2' 6" is about as far as you can reach, depending on scenery at the front..

I would go up to 3x1, and build it in such a way you can walk on it, if you need access to the back of the layout.

PhilP
 
I have used 30mm xps Extruded polystyrene its dense, cheap, easy to dig into for cables or ditches etc, glued down with normal liquid nails on top of 10mm plywood on a timber frame 30mm x 70mm (i had that timber for free it doesn't need to be this size ) on my staging area which will also be part of the continuous run for outside. Edit I plan to glue the track down , don't think nails or screws would work with XPS.
 
a dozen years ago i made a small modular layout.
just a R1 circle.
the modules for a quarter-circle were 2' 7" by 2' 7" each.
for my next permanent layout i plan to use the same method, only with larger modules. (max. 3' by 7' each)
the frame is from solid wood boards, the deck from 6mm (¼") plywood with half an inch of styrofoam glued on top. (against noise and for form-able surface)

in the first pics of this link you can get an impression of the modules:

Modules

SOUTHERN & GULF RAILROAD an indoors largescale modelrailway layout - S & G RR eine Grossbahn Modellbau Innenanlage. In English and German - Auf Deutsch und Englisch.
kormsen.info
 
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Hi Martin.

That sounds an interesting project, and I hope it works well for you, look forward to seeing photos. A few thoughts from me. I am part of the 16mm modular layout group, there is a section on the association website about it, which you may find helpful for ideas (
www.16mm.org.uk

Modular Layout Standards - Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers

Rowlands Modules – Setting the Standard During 2013 Gareth Jones, one of our members, led an initiative to develop the standard published below for the building of ‘modules’ that can be brought together to form layouts either by an individual or by groups of people wanting to create something...
www.16mm.org.uk www.16mm.org.uk
). From my experience I would go with 3" x 1" framing and use 3/8" ply on top for strength. You can then glue or screw track down as you choose. I have used MDF in the past but it does sag over time, even with framing under, so I don't use that now for base boards.

I would not use styrofoam anywhere near live steam, as it may not be fireproof, certainly the stuff I tried the other day in the back yard was not, indeed it burnt quite enthusiastically with thick smoke. I would now have reservations about it under electric trains too. Others may think it's versatility and lightness worth the risk.

I hope that will be of help.

David
 
RDFMTS2 said:
Hi Martin.

That sounds an interesting project, and I hope it works well for you, look forward to seeing photos. A few thoughts from me. I am part of the 16mm modular layout group, there is a section on the association website about it, which you may find helpful for ideas (
www.16mm.org.uk

Modular Layout Standards - Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers

Rowlands Modules – Setting the Standard During 2013 Gareth Jones, one of our members, led an initiative to develop the standard published below for the building of ‘modules’ that can be brought together to form layouts either by an individual or by groups of people wanting to create something...
www.16mm.org.uk www.16mm.org.uk
). From my experience I would go with 3" x 1" framing and use 3/8" ply on top for strength. You can then glue or screw track down as you choose. I have used MDF in the past but it does sag over time, even with framing under, so I don't use that now for base boards.

I would not use styrofoam anywhere near live steam, as it may not be fireproof, certainly the stuff I tried the other day in the back yard was not, indeed it burnt quite enthusiastically with thick smoke. I would now have reservations about it under electric trains too. Others may think it's versatility and lightness worth the risk.

I hope that will be of help.

David
Click to expand...
Hi I found theses observations interesting , so I got a offcut of Xps and tried to set it on fire with a cigarette lighter . It was not easy to get it to light, close to 10 seconds in the flame and then flame went out when the lighter was removed. Xps is manufactured here in Aust for house insulation maybe it has a flame retardant in it ? Did you use the white light Styrofoam like is used to package appliances ? Xps is affected by heat thou , so maybe not a good choice for live steam, I can't see a problem for a electric layout.
 
Very interesting and helpful suggestions. Thank you.

A couple of things. I run battery power with r/c, so no need for electrical connections. Also I won’t be running live steam. I plan on access from all sides, so no need to worry about rear access, or walking on the baseboards.

I can see the wisdom of 3 x 1 framing and 3/8th ply. That sounds sensible.

There probably won’t be very much, if any, need for built up scenery. I’m just looking at buildings, which I already have from the outdoor SBLR in Florida. I’m not too worried, at this stage about noise as it’s located in the basement. It’s pretty much cut off from the rest of the house sound wise.

Thank you all very much. Much to think of and possibly more suggestions to come.

Thanks again.
 
For my indoor layout I used side frames of 'L' girders made from two lengths of 2x1 screwed together. Needs less support.
 
Martino said:
Some of you may remember the South Buckinghamshire Light Railway that was a 15mm/ft railway built at ground level in Florida. Since moving to a mountain in Georgia I’ve been struggling to find somewhere flat to build a new version. I’s not going to happen! However, I have pretty large basement and have decided to try and build an indoor railway. The main area chosen is some 27’ x 9’, but I can go outside of this for a fiddle yard. I’m proposing to use a track plan similar to the terminal plan in Peco’s 1974 Track Plans. Just up sizing from 00 to 15mm by doubling everything! That should work.

Now…..the last time I built an indoor railway was back in the UK in the ‘60s/‘70s, and that was 00. I used 2”x 1” framing with hardboard or sundeala as a top. My questions are….

1. Will such a baseboard construction be OK for our larger track and stock, with increase in weight etc?
2. What would you all suggest as a top? I presume Sundeala is not available in the US, so I’m guessing hardboard. What sort of thickness would you recomend?
3. Is MDF or Fiberboard any good?

I’d appreciate being guided in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance

Martin
Click to expand...
As you are in the US I would ignore all suggestions to use 4x1, 3x1 etc. BUT I would certainly suggest following Linn Westcott L girder construction for your base using 2x1 or local equivalent, construction so simple and makes adding risers for scenery and only having to use board for track n scenery where necessary. MDF is horrible to work with as are most man made flat boards so mask when cutting indoors. 1/2 particle board will be plenty strong enough for trains though you appear to be happy with 3/8 ply which will be more than adequate, you are not building a 5in gauge line on legs!
www.trains.com

A 1977 interview with Linn Westcott - Trains

In this 1977 interview with Linn Westcott, learn about the late Model Railroader editor and his ambitions.
www.trains.com www.trains.com
 
Lots of good advice here so far,

Just thought I’d mention the possibility of open frame frame baseboard construction, as it gives you the chance to do a bit more scenically, as you can do embankments and hills a bit easier

modelrailwayengineer.com

Model railway baseboards: the complete guide

Everything you need to know about model railway baseboards. The complete guide including modular, open frame and flat top boards for model trains, construction advice and where to buy them.
modelrailwayengineer.com modelrailwayengineer.com

Looking forward to seeing the updates

Dan
 
I just used the 12mm construction plywood and hardwood legs (timber form my deck that was replaced) that my old HO layout sat on it's plenty strong enough for my trains.
ringbalin-light-railway.blogspot.com

2. 18 January 2024 Area for the Indoor Section cleared

The wall that separated the two parts of the shed has been dismantled and I now have a clear space to work in (a blank canvas so to speak). ...
ringbalin-light-railway.blogspot.com ringbalin-light-railway.blogspot.com
ringbalin.blogspot.com

1. December 2019 HO Base Construction Begins

Construction began at the beginning of December 2019 with the installation of base board support framing. The layout is 1300mm off the ...
ringbalin.blogspot.com ringbalin.blogspot.com
 
Why not re-build the South Bucks in the basement?

It seems to be large enough for a sizeable 16mm layout....
 
Gizzy said:
Why not re-build the South Bucks in the basement?

It seems to be large enough for a sizeable 16mm layout....
Click to expand...
Ha! Nice idea, but the old South Bucks did cover a large area, larger than the basement. Also, the basement has other duties - workshop, gym, storage (we don’t have a conventional loft and the basement is MUCH tidier and easier to access), garden shed and winter greenhouse, plus the ‘engine room’ which contains water heater/furnace, water purification from the well, electronics centre etc. I could have a 00 gauge layout that I’ve been promising myself for years - an engine shed and carriage sidings (like Slough GWR) at a scale size - but then what to do with all my 45mm track and the buildings and stock? Plus t’would cost an arm and a leg and I’d have to learn all that electrical nonsense ;-). I’d be happy in recreating the SBLR as a terminus with engine shed leading to a fiddle yard. Although you know how things tend to grow…….
The only fly in this ointment is building the baseboard as it’s a long time since I did that. I also want to avoid ground level lines due to the aging knees (one replacement scheduled for next February). But it’s an idea to consider.
 
SevenOfDiamonds said:
It's too early in the morning (here) for logical thought, but why does that strike me as not being right?
Click to expand...
No it’s not but I’m working on the idea that the plan I have has platforms that will hold 3 or 4 carriage trains (standard gauge) and just doubling the size allows for three IOM pairs coaches in 15mm scale - they’re each two foot long. Plus doubling the size of the 00 building seems to fit the size of the 15mm structures I already have. Maths was never my strong point - O Level Maths failed three times and gave up ;-)
 
Martino said:
Ha! Nice idea, but the old South Bucks did cover a large area, larger than the basement. Also, the basement has other duties - workshop, gym, storage (we don’t have a conventional loft and the basement is MUCH tidier and easier to access), garden shed and winter greenhouse, plus the ‘engine room’ which contains water heater/furnace, water purification from the well, electronics centre etc. I could have a 00 gauge layout that I’ve been promising myself for years - an engine shed and carriage sidings (like Slough GWR) at a scale size - but then what to do with all my 45mm track and the buildings and stock? Plus t’would cost an arm and a leg and I’d have to learn all that electrical nonsense ;-). I’d be happy in recreating the SBLR as a terminus with engine shed leading to a fiddle yard. Although you know how things tend to grow…….
The only fly in this ointment is building the baseboard as it’s a long time since I did that. I also want to avoid ground level lines due to the aging knees (one replacement scheduled for next February). But it’s an idea to consider.
Click to expand...
How about buying some steel shelving/racking and using that?
I'm using something like this for my lower level it is 900mm high and the added bonus is that you can have a storage shelf underneath.
Saved me having to buy heaps of timber.
Or maybe run the line around the walls with the baseboard on brackets if will fit.
 
I built my Thomas's Branch modules from 7/16" (11.7 mm) Baltic birch ply, the sides being 4" deep and spanning between 14" and 7 feet. This is one of the corners.

100_1893 (Copy).JPG
I admit this is a premium ply, but it is strong and stands up to being set up and taken down at shows, not something you'd have to deal with on a permanent layout. Half-inch G1S ply (I don't see 3/8" in our local yards) is probably fine.
MDF and particle board are inventions of the Devil: Heavy, weak, messy to cut, won't hold fasteners. The best tool for them is a lump hammer wielded with extreme prejudice.
 
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