Dunno where Mike got his, but I know that Heyn sell sets of brass checkrail adapters for LGB R3. Not yet got any myself, but considering it. Then again I may just get some lengths of brass rail and "do it properly", ie. totally replace the plastic check rails.
Piko points: opinions wanted
- Thread starter Sea Lion
- Start date
This was the main problem with several of my Piko points.
The insulation melted and the wires fused together.
It took just a few months for it to happen.
The insulation melted and the wires fused together.
It took just a few months for it to happen.
The photograph above highlights my previous comment on preparation prior to installing points. The wire gauge used by the manufacturer is obviously suited to the purpose that it was no doubt designed for, i.e., replacement for LGB items. A current draw that fuses wire of that gauge is outside the design limitations of the manufacturer. As a LGB 'replacement' then anticipated current draw would be a nominal 2 amps, with a 3 amp maximum. To fuse this wire then current draw was much higher than manufacturer designed intentions.
Is this a 'design' flaw or 'misuse' of the product. I have been running trains for many years and have never seen a fused wire, but then I specifically do not run high amperage draw locomotives. If I did then I would upgrade all the wire specs on my railroad, including point wiring. As stated in an earlier posting, 'ready to run' does not really mean ready to run.
Is this a 'design' flaw or 'misuse' of the product. I have been running trains for many years and have never seen a fused wire, but then I specifically do not run high amperage draw locomotives. If I did then I would upgrade all the wire specs on my railroad, including point wiring. As stated in an earlier posting, 'ready to run' does not really mean ready to run.
I would agree Tim that some preparation would be necessary for any electrical device left permanently in the weather. But I think that particular fault is a poor mechanical joint which caused an added resistance hence the high current draw and burning I doubt very much a loco simply traversing the point did that..........................
Paul,
I have several Aristo #6 switches 'back to back' with opposing live frogs. I use the LGB microswith to throw the polarity. Sometimes (not very often, fortunately), I backdrive the switch from opposite direction against the 'set' position of the frog polarity. Of cause a short circuit occurs. I wired fuse blocks into my railroad for such a situation. It is far easier to replace a fuse than rewire/replace a switch/points. The humble fuse is often forgotten in today's digital age.
Preparation for me entails wiring in low rating fuses (3 - 5 amps), just sufficient for my needs. I believe that it is foolhardy to run high amperage power supplies when expected current draw is in the region of one to two amps only.
I have several Aristo #6 switches 'back to back' with opposing live frogs. I use the LGB microswith to throw the polarity. Sometimes (not very often, fortunately), I backdrive the switch from opposite direction against the 'set' position of the frog polarity. Of cause a short circuit occurs. I wired fuse blocks into my railroad for such a situation. It is far easier to replace a fuse than rewire/replace a switch/points. The humble fuse is often forgotten in today's digital age.
Preparation for me entails wiring in low rating fuses (3 - 5 amps), just sufficient for my needs. I believe that it is foolhardy to run high amperage power supplies when expected current draw is in the region of one to two amps only.
minimans said:
Tim has, unfortunately, not troubled to read the detailed descriptions in previous posts of the faults encountered which show poor assembly by Piko and, possibly, the wrong materials used for connections. As suggested that has led to high resistance and meltdown. The fault is primarily poor quality control. Nothing to do with preparation or user error.
For information, in the EU if the manufacturer specifies that the product can be used outside without any riders about preparation, then in law they are held to mean that such is the case. None of the manufacturers make any such riders - their points are sold as working outdoors out of the box in any expected conditions (as might be reasonably expected if you want a legal phrase). LGB's points pass that test. Piko's have not. End of story.
If one actually read my original posting then I actually stated in the fourth paragraph, quote: "Similarly, a check tighten of electrical contact mount screws is also in order". High resistence across the electrical connection may be due loose electrical fittings. As I stated, a simple check of these connections for security may alleviate a problem in the future. I believe that if a connection is subject to high current draw then the operator is inputting high power potential to the rails to run high amperage draw equipment. Piko points are purchased because they are CHEAP/inexpensive. You get what you pay for.
I also stated that an item subject to carrying high currents should be designed for the task (actually read my original posting). The Piko point obviously has issues, that is not in dispute (also in my original posting). The purpose of my posting was that operators take no preinstallation preparation and still expect the item to perform at peak performance. If one has the time to remove a defective item (due haste in installation) and has time to post their findings on a forum, then they have the few minutes it takes to prepare the point prior installation.
I also stated that an item subject to carrying high currents should be designed for the task (actually read my original posting). The Piko point obviously has issues, that is not in dispute (also in my original posting). The purpose of my posting was that operators take no preinstallation preparation and still expect the item to perform at peak performance. If one has the time to remove a defective item (due haste in installation) and has time to post their findings on a forum, then they have the few minutes it takes to prepare the point prior installation.
Tim Brien said:
Tim - kindly re-read my last posting. Piko are required in EU law to ensure that their items are fit for any reasonably expected use. There is no requirement on the user to adjust or amend the points in any way nor take any special care in installation, unless expressly advised by the manufacturer. Piko have given no such advice.
By the way, Piko points are neither cheap nor inexpensive locally. Fitted with a motor they are effectively the same price as LGB. Any price differential is down to Piko supplying a manual R3 point, whereas LGB only supply one factory-fitted with a switch machine/ point motor.
why? i ve got a band new car.. do i need to get it serviced 1st? no.. so why points?
i have a brand new loco, do i need to service it 1st?? no...
new telly?
its not simplly a case off tighting the screws up
:wits::wits::wits:
the screws are TOO LONG for the holes they are in.. they are allready breaking through the rail.. so SIMPLY tighting them in, will lead to them busting through the rail.. off course, i bow to the experts who havent got these troubling points..
what would i know
i have a brand new loco, do i need to service it 1st?? no...
new telly?
its not simplly a case off tighting the screws up
:wits::wits::wits:the screws are TOO LONG for the holes they are in.. they are allready breaking through the rail.. so SIMPLY tighting them in, will lead to them busting through the rail.. off course, i bow to the experts who havent got these troubling points..
what would i know
Could I ask a couple of questions please?
1. Are the fixing screws (that are too long) a torx head?
2. Would the addition of a suitable shake proof washer cure this problem with the overly long screw?
Ta!
1. Are the fixing screws (that are too long) a torx head?
2. Would the addition of a suitable shake proof washer cure this problem with the overly long screw?
Ta!
yes they are gary. and no i carnt get the buggers out, if i try the heads start to twist.. but the thread dosnt move
mike said:
Just a quick thought in light of your comment, Mike - if you can't tighten the screws OR remove them, then would a dab of solder between the screw head and the eyelet connector solve the electrical contact problem?
Jon.
Looking at KeithT's photo above, it looks like there's a tell-tale sign of excessive heat due to high resistance at the left-hand screw - the brown plastic around it looks slightly melted/deformed? I agree folk are correct that this is probably the cause of this particular failure - poor connections at the screw. On the face of it the wire gauge used looks like it should be good for a few amps, although perhaps not as thick as the solid bus-bars that LGB use?
If anyone's got a failed right-hander they don't trust any more I'll give you a tenner for it
I don't mind a bit of tinkering/fettling/replacing screws etc. if the price is right!
If anyone's got a failed right-hander they don't trust any more I'll give you a tenner for it
I don't mind a bit of tinkering/fettling/replacing screws etc. if the price is right!
i surpose, its possable to "sort" the point, drill out the screws, fit the correct sizeesz screws, re do the wireing.. the thing is.. i dont feel happy/trust the points anymore,
yes im a snob, massoth power, trainline points,piko points.,lgb points, the thing is, im in it for the long hall. i want to balast my track, iDOnt want to be contiunly repairing a duff point.,be it trainline,piko,or lgb.. i try differnt things,.. if it works great(trainline) if it dosnt(piko) pooo........if in dought,wack in a lgb one
yes im a snob, massoth power, trainline points,piko points.,lgb points, the thing is, im in it for the long hall. i want to balast my track, iDOnt want to be contiunly repairing a duff point.,be it trainline,piko,or lgb.. i try differnt things,.. if it works great(trainline) if it dosnt(piko) pooo........if in dought,wack in a lgb one
I don't think it's a question of snobbishness, Mike.
There has to be a reasonable expectation that what we buy is going to work. I've been a bit hesitant to say anything about my Aristocraft #6, because it came with specific instructsion for maintenance of the polarity switch, which I did not do, becaue of course I know best
so as a result, I had to undertake a modifcation which has worked reliably ever since.
Clearly, from someone else's post here, if you undertake the maintenance, they're OK.
Part of the other issue, I suspect, is geometry. For me, it doesn't matter, as my line is fairly 'freeflow', but if you're laying reasonably complex junctions, geometric compatibility is also important.
General Forum experience suggests that, with the check rail modification, the LGB R3 should be good. But then again, why haven't the premier marque woken up to the need to re-tool the product?
Just a few things to run round your fuzzy head this morning
There has to be a reasonable expectation that what we buy is going to work. I've been a bit hesitant to say anything about my Aristocraft #6, because it came with specific instructsion for maintenance of the polarity switch, which I did not do, becaue of course I know best
so as a result, I had to undertake a modifcation which has worked reliably ever since.Clearly, from someone else's post here, if you undertake the maintenance, they're OK.
Part of the other issue, I suspect, is geometry. For me, it doesn't matter, as my line is fairly 'freeflow', but if you're laying reasonably complex junctions, geometric compatibility is also important.
General Forum experience suggests that, with the check rail modification, the LGB R3 should be good. But then again, why haven't the premier marque woken up to the need to re-tool the product?
Just a few things to run round your fuzzy head this morning
I've just looked at prices of LGB R3 versus Piko R5 (R3 in reality) at Dragon G - if you add the cost of a LGB electric point motor to the Piko, then Piko are only £2.34 cheaper!
I bought Piko because they were cheaper than LGB - but there was no manual or electric actuator AND I didn't need any because both were trailing. However, for facing points I would NOW consider LGB!
I bought Piko because they were cheaper than LGB - but there was no manual or electric actuator AND I didn't need any because both were trailing. However, for facing points I would NOW consider LGB!
I agree almost 100% Mike except for the car reference, you don't have to service it because the dealer did it for you! PDI (Pre-delivery inspection) We have to do it coz they can't do it right at the factory!!mike said:why? i ve got a band new car.. do i need to get it serviced 1st? no.. so why points?
i have a brand new loco, do i need to service it 1st?? no...
new telly?
its not simplly a case off tighting the screws up
the screws are TOO LONG for the holes they are in.. they are allready breaking through the rail.. so SIMPLY tighting them in, will lead to them busting through the rail.. off course, i bow to the experts who havent got these troubling points..
what would i know
Tim Brien said:
Tim
The wire is obviously up to the job even though it seems to be steel and not the preferred copper. The problem arises because the insulation around the wire is most definitely not up to the job and that is how the wires came to be fused together.
The highest drawing locos I have are three twin motor LGB ones and a Bachmann K27. The cable ought to withstand those without melting.
Prior to fitting the Piko points I have run 5 single motor locos with smoke, lights and several carriage lights simultaneously and not had 'meltdown'.
Now that I have dealt with the Piko ones they are fine, (BTW the K27 will not run through LGB R3s), but as sold they were not "Goods of Merchantable Quality" as required in the UK Sale of Goods Acts.