Paste?

Handsomerob

Handsomerob

Catching the fever
O.k. boys whats the insight on paste, I've tested a few off the shelf copper pastes and none of them conduct electricity. So whats the secret? Is there a brand or am I good to use rail joiners and call it good.
 
The main idea is not to conduct electricity but to coat the bare metal and stave off oxidation, which is the real enemy....................................
 
I agree with minimans, although I think I read somewhere the theory that once a thin enough layer is under some pressure it may conduct (eg. once squidged between the fishplate and rail). I just used it to prevent moisture and oxidation in the joints.
 
Whatever the truth about conductivity or lack thereof, the stuff DOES seem to work!
I was helping out with an open garden day at a friend's layout yesterday, he's had his track down for many years and has never even had to use railclamps - just standard LGB fishplates and LGB graphite paste, track power with MTSII - and everything just runs beautifully......
That said, for my own I'm going "belt and braces" with Massoth clamps AND a little dab of LGB paste in each one!

Jon.
 
The LGB fishplates, being push fit, no matter how tight, will always allow a smidgen of atmospheric conditions that contribute to oxydation. The Aristo screwed fishplates, and rail clamps, with the additional mechanical grip to the rail prevent oxydation. I removed some Aristo fishplates that had been outside for 7 or 8 years, and where the fishplate had been tight against the rail, it was all nice and shiny yellow brass :nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:
 
Yes, LGB conductive paste is not conductive in of itself. They have finally settled to it "keeps conductivity" between the joiners (fishplates) and the rail.

Years ago they told me the paste was conductive because it had graphite particles. Now when you tell an engineer stuff about physics, you have to have your story straight.

In greases, it's really hard to have enough conductive metal (or otherwise) to have continuity, since the grease carrier itself is a dielectric (non conductor)

When I brought this up to an LGB representative, and then proved it with an ohmmeter (and also showed some truly conductive grease), he then reverted to this: "the particles of graphite are conductive, but do not conduct as a whole until you put pressure on the grease, and then all the particles connect to conduct electricity"

unbelievable, and they finally gave up. There are indeed really electrically conductive greases, and almost every time people have used them, they seem to get where you don't want them and you wind up with a short circuit. I knew people trying to increase power pickup on wheels, and basically shorted the wheel to the axle, past the insulator.

Greg
 
Whatever? I use it and it seems to work.
 
Copperslip as found in Automotive stores works just as well as the LGB Graphite....
 
Actually, in the states we have "anti-sieze" compounds that variably have nickel, copper, etc, but sold as non-seizing greases. They, in my opinion work even better, they seem to "coat" the metal better, but they are more costly than the wheel bearing grease, and messier.

Over the last 10 years, I have experimented with SplitJaw rail clamps and various greases. The best from a corrosion standpoints has been a grease that is used to control corrosion on aluminum mains wiring... The anti-sieze compounds performed better on the screw threads but not as well on corrosion/oxidation. At the bottom of the heap were the graphited or moly greases.

Greg
 
My floating track, on horticultural grit balast base, has been down 13 years. I use a mix of fishplates and track clamps, Hillman and Massoth, to aid alignment and avoid track separation. All joins have a smear of LGB paste or Coppergrease onto clean track and joiners. Most of my track is in shade and is slow to dry. Any power connections are similarly treated. So far.....no power issues. Always clean and prepare any track joins when doing maintainance and layout alterations. Max.
 
Don't use the stuff now - did when I had a handful of LGB R3 curves & points - sold 'em off now :smoke::smoke::smoke::smoke::smoke:
 
So what is the general feeling about using paste (of whatever brand/type) AND clamps? A good idea, or does the better physical connection offered by the clamps as opposed to just the slide-on joiners render the paste superfluous (and possibly even counter-productive)?

Jon.
 
On my previous layout in Hemel I was very fastidious and cleaned all the rail ends then applied LGB Graphite Paste with some 10 or more years of perfect running. When I moved here in 2012 I was in a bit of a hurry and not so fastidious. However most of the Track had Dried Paste and I did in some instances just put in some new with no cleaning up. Have to say that I use Track Clamps on both lines pretty well exclusively and have no running problems with loss of juice other than the odd joint where I missed tightening up the Clamps. On sorting that every thing was perfect.
JonD
 
Zerogee said:
So what is the general feeling about using paste (of whatever brand/type) AND clamps? A good idea, or does the better physical connection offered by the clamps as opposed to just the slide-on joiners render the paste superfluous (and possibly even counter-productive)?

Jon.
Click to expand...
Nice shiny brass - metal to metal contact is my theory. It worked for the WWSR, but the WWNR is still in its infancy.

..and of course, the ubiquitous cooker cable going across the middle: in this way, you are subject to current drop for only a quarter of the track length of your circuit (assuming that you are going round and round)
 
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