Newbie and his Steam Tram

[stockers]

I cheat - I boil ordinary tap water in a knackered old kettle, and remove it from there, just boiled, with the big syringe, and squirt straight into the water filler.

It's a win/win

1. The calcium is deposited in said knackered kettle
2. You get quicker steam pressure from hot water

Cant agree with point one Rhino. Calcium will continue to be deposited as the volume of water reduces.

 

[tac foley]

Water from a tumbler drier, dehumidifier or a table top distiller is needed if your rainwater turns your car splotchy, or you need an in-line filter/Brita set-up in your kitchen. Not all of us have the benefit of good water. Here in East Anglia the stuff that comes out of the tap will wear out a Brita kettle filter in a week - sometimes less. The sludgy crap that appears in the bottom of my 1.5 gallon water distiller is brown and goopy and most certain to destroy a steam loco in short order by simply filling up the steam pipes and baking solid from the heat of the burner.

This being UK, distilled water costs about the same as a bottle of wine, mainly because this is not a nation of domestic air conditioning. Mention has been made of de-ionised water - it WILL eventually leach out the solder from the boiler joints, leading to failure and necessitating replacement - not cheap.

As for filling while running, or rather, coming to a halt and topping up, this can be done by getting a Goodall valve - it replaces the water filler cap, and needs the use of a suitable filler bottle. All this stuff should be readily available from your local dealer, and if not, get a copy of Garden Rail and buy out of the pages, or on-line. I recommend Mike Derby of Chuffed to Bits, and Chris Moody of Loco-Boxes to be getting on with...

tsc
OVGRS.org

 

[G-force1]

Hi Lee, welcome to the world of steamies. If you want too read a different slant on water provision, try reading the thread "Distil your own", it takes a slightly light hearted look at alternative technology, but has proved to be effective, if a little slow, in better weather.

 

[Lee Mann]

G-force1 I’ve searched and cannot find that thread but I am intrigued to have a read.
Do you have a link?

Mr Foley with your venerable words of wisdom as always. Kind of shocking to hear about the leeching effect with the de-ionised water, will make sure to approach the water source with great caution

 

[dunnyrail]

WATER OIL GAS.
Suggest that you revisit my #4 and Kevin's post #36, between the two of us pretty well all the things you need to know are here. I always suggest Wate in the Boiler first as if you miss that out and light up serious damage can occur. Do not ask how I know this!

WATER
There have been long discussions in other threads on this forum about water, boiling a kettle and using that fills me with dread if you happen to be in a hard water area as Stockers said in one of his posts there will still be limescale present after boiling. He also highlights the issues about de-ionised water. If you can get it a de-hunidifier produces the best. Though the defrosted fridge water if clean enough will be ok but not defrosted Ice Cubes made from Tap Water! Someone once suggested this option to me, the mind boggled at the time.

GAS MIXES
I have had many discussions with more knowledgable people than myself and they look on in horror at the use of Propane Mixes in the warmer months. Ok to use Butane Propane Mix in the Winter outside Wicks used to do such a Mix. But I still prefer to use just Butane all the year round cos you can bet that you will only heve a Mix left when you want to run in the Summer. Better to ignore mixes if you can.

Have fun with your Dragon. Also think about joining the 16mm Society (or is it Assn now?) you will meet a lot of like thinking puffer nuts and many groups have tracks for both 32 and 45 to run on.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Cant agree with point one Rhino. Calcium will continue to be deposited as the volume of water reduces.

OK, so how else do you distill it?

Or is it that one boil up isn't enough?

This is fairly relevant because, as Tac says, East Anglia has harder water than we had in Sussex, not by any great degree, but it does have more calcium. So while my operating practices may have been OK in Sussex, they may not be OK in East Anglia.

I should add that I also used to de-scale the boiler with a kettle de-scaler once every year or so

We'll probably find out that's instant death as well

 

[Lee Mann]

Dunnyrail, I have yours and Kevin’s posts that you mentioned saved and put togther in a makeshift homemade ‘knowledge manual’ along with a few others, been revising it at work and will refer back to it when I steam up. All your info is truly priceless.

I bought steam oil and a butane only gas canister with the loco will the following suffice?

 

[trammayo]

OK, so how else do you distill it?

Or is it that one boil up isn't enough?

This is fairly relevant because, as Tac says, East Anglia has harder water than we had in Sussex, not by any great degree, but it does have more calcium. So while my operating practices may have been OK in Sussex, they may not be OK in East Anglia.

I should add that I also used to de-scale the boiler with a kettle de-scaler once every year or so

We'll probably find out that's instant death as well

To distill requires the liquid to evaporate and condense into a different vessel. At least that's as I see it.

 

[Rhinochugger]

To distill requires the liquid to evaporate and condense into a different vessel. At least that's as I see it.

Yes, I guessed I'd got something wrong

 

[G-force1]

Lee, the 'Distil your own' thread link is below. It is rather old, so the search was necessary. It is also slightly corrupted due to software changes.

The forums can be searched from the black banner at the top (2nd left).

https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/distil-your-own.76930/

 

[Paul M]

I cheat - I boil ordinary tap water in a knackered old kettle, and remove it from there, just boiled, with the big syringe, and squirt straight into the water filler.

It's a win/win

1. The calcium is deposited in said knackered kettle
2. You get quicker steam pressure from hot water

Small word of warning here, be very careful. Most model locos are built to run out of gas before water for obvious reasons. If you use hot water you to steam up, you may reverse that, so keep an eye on your water gauge, if fitted. Mind you I've been advised to top up the gas on my Accucraft Lyn after reaching steam, as it takes an age and the gas runs out too quickly!

 

[Rhinochugger]

Small word of warning here, be very careful. Most model locos are built to run out of gas before water for obvious reasons. If you use hot water you to steam up, you may reverse that, so keep an eye on your water gauge, if fitted. Mind you I've been advised to top up the gas on my Accucraft Lyn after reaching steam, as it takes an age and the gas runs out too quickly!

Yep, that's why I use warm water, because of the steam-up time. Even so, the gas runs out first.

The difficult bit is using the water top up from the bunker, because that introduces bubbles in the sight glass.

I find that one dose of steam oil lasts for two gas tank fills. There's no point using a fancy top up valve, as you are advised not to re-fill the gas tank while the burner is alight - because the butane is heavier than air, and could cause a big pop when you don't want it

 

[stockers]

To distill requires the liquid to evaporate and condense into a different vessel. At least that's as I see it.

Thats as i understand it Mick.

 

[tac foley]

My distiller decants the condensate into a slighty-over-a gallon clear plastic container.

I've been using it for around ten years, and none of my boilers have suffered a jot.

tac

 

[Zerogee]

Sound advice, Rhino - I'd never put a gas can anywhere near a loco that was still lit!
Of course if it runs out of gas, or seems to be getting low, nothing to stop you just letting it rest for a minute with the gas valve firmly off, then refilling the gas and re-lighting the burner - the boiler will still be pretty hot and probably still have some steam, which is where a Goodall valve is handy for refilling the water, as you don't want to be unscrewing the fill cap while there is still pressure in the boiler - just like you don't unscrew your radiator cap on a hot car engine!
My Accucraft Wonky (1K) now has a Goodall valve in place of the standard filler cap, but I can't do anything with the Frank S in that regard because it uses a screw plug in the top of the steam dome as the water fill point; while it would be theoretically possible to replace this with a Goodall, it would have to be a specially machined part to fit the loco without looking too ugly and out of place....

Jon.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Sound advice, Rhino - I'd never put a gas can anywhere near a loco that was still lit!
Of course if it runs out of gas, or seems to be getting low, nothing to stop you just letting it rest for a minute with the gas valve firmly off, then refilling the gas and re-lighting the burner - the boiler will still be pretty hot and probably still have some steam, which is where a Goodall valve is handy for refilling the water, as you don't want to be unscrewing the fill cap while there is still pressure in the boiler - just like you don't unscrew your radiator cap on a hot car engine!
My Accucraft Wonky (1K) now has a Goodall valve in place of the standard filler cap, but I can't do anything with the Frank S in that regard because it uses a screw plug in the top of the steam dome as the water fill point; while it would be theoretically possible to replace this with a Goodall, it would have to be a specially machined part to fit the loco without looking too ugly and out of place....

Jon.

Ah, that's why I don't need a Goodall thingy, because you can get the second water re-fill from the bunker (with hand pump) and if you put hot water in there, it stays warm enough

After two gas tank fills, you've got to blow the pressure down to re-fill with steam oil

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thats as i understand it Mick.

There's always got to be someone who blows a hole in your brilliant idea

I think I knew all that from a long way back really, but given that some limescale cruds around the kettle element, I figured that I'd probably got enough out to make it relatively safe for the loco.

I s'pose all will be revealed..............................in time

 

[G-force1]

After two gas tank fills, you've got to blow the pressure down to re-fill with steam oil

That depends on where the displacement lubricator is piped in. Correctly it should be AFTER the regulator, allowing it to be refilled with the regulator shut and the boiler still in steam. It is rather handy to know how yours is piped.

The correct procedure is to open the drain valve to expel water and any remaining pressure, then open the filler and allow the rest of the condensate to drain (if oil appears then just close the drain early). With the drain closed fill with oil and reseal the filler. Ready to run.

 

[trammayo]

There's always got to be someone who blows a hole in your brilliant idea

I think I knew all that from a long way back really, but given that some limescale cruds around the kettle element, I figured that I'd probably got enough out to make it relatively safe for the loco.

I s'pose all will be revealed..............................in time

Limescale - a PITA! Combination Boilers, Electric Showers, Washing Machines, Dishwashers, Water Coolers, and Kettles!

A good descaler for kettles is White Vinegar.

Chlorination of drinking water seems to exacerbate the situation but I may be wrong.

 

[dunnyrail]

Dunnyrail, I have yours and Kevin’s posts that you mentioned saved and put togther in a makeshift homemade ‘knowledge manual’ along with a few others, been revising it at work and will refer back to it when I steam up. All your info is truly priceless.

I bought steam oil and a butane only gas canister with the loco will the following suffice?

Yup that will give you a start, oil will last much longer than the Gas.