New to battery power/radio control - choice of brand?

Greg Elmassian

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Zimo has an extensive sound library, and does not have the "template nightmares" of Massoth for programming.


When you say Revolution, in this post I think you mean the "original" Revolution with the all in one receiver and limited sound. Cost effective, but I would not use that system because you cannot fufill your needs for European sound. Remember the "original" Revolution transmitters and the DCC Revolution transmitters are NOT interchangeable. For this reason I would only recommend the Revolution DCC system.

Greg
 

rentren

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...oops. Wasn't aware of those DC vs DCC facts, Greg. The helper I keep mentioning runs models of N.Am. prototypes where the limitation is at least not severe. The Canadian dealer I get my Revolution transmitter and receivers from mentioned that he sells the DC variety.
Phoenix sound library is limited. I listend to al electrics. Nyah. No Ge 2/4, Ge 6/6 a bit much, Erack is a possibility 'xcept that rack clack, even the German E44 offers options but does of course not convince either. - Play it by ear in deed.
Phoenix El_sounds.jpg
Oh, (edited) and btw, I think Phoenix placed a generic E-Loco image for GE44I. I suspect Phoenix' label means the RhB Ge 4/4 I with that characteristic noise when accelerating (Hüpferschaltung, maybe 'power switching' or 'power jumping'; electric contact achieved with sm hammers slotted into position with compressed air to lessen resistance and speed up).
The samples Phoenix offers are hardly complete and samples don't convince all that much. However, Massoth eMotion XLS with Ge 2/2 sounds, offers a grinding running noise for a running machine which is decidedly not the way the oldie sounds when passing. And inside the cab it will again be something different. Still, you get the whistle blowing, and if you like it, you can have that with echo. …might almost get homesick.
 
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Greg Elmassian

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The sounds phoenix has of narrow gauge us prototypes are very nice, notice where they are located.

I think their US diesels are so so...

The rest is meh....

I've been very happy with Zimo since they have a good support group in the USA, and also their HO decoders are very robust in terms of current handling and DCC voltage handlind, often one of their HO units is sufficient for a smaller G scale loco, saving $$, but not compromising sound quality or anything else.

Greg
 

rentren

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To be sure I understand the 'original' Revolution systems DC (rather than DCC) and sound, ...Zimo won't work?
 

Greg Elmassian

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OK, the "original" Revolution (still sold) has a single decoder that incorporates the receiver, motor and light control and sounds, and there are only a few sounds.

The DCC version is a receiver and a controller that outputs DCC commands and 5 amp power. This unit needs a DCC decoder attached.

You can pick virtually any DCC decoder, which has motor, lights, sound.

Greg
 

rentren

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TNX, Greg!
 

Zerogee

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Just to expand on Greg's post.... if you look at the photos in the linked threads from my post no.36, you'll see the two boards in each loco - one is the RC receiver board (a Tam Valley one in my locos, but a Revo DCC board would be a direct replacement), and this then feeds both power and DCC commands into the second board which is a standard DCC sound decoder - in my examples a Massoth XLS, but a Zimo, ESU or any other suitable large-scale decoder would be a straight swap. The loco motors and functions are then controlled via the sound decoder, exactly as they would be if using track-power DCC.

Jon.
 

rentren

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Checked it more closely, noticed the labels and have your most recent comment - TNX, Jon!
 

Greg Elmassian

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OK, I'm a little confused, and want to make sure this does not confuse rentren.

I will admit you did not read all of the threads referenced in post 36.

If you use the Crest Revolution Train Engineer DCC system. the Transmitter and the receivers are proprietary, and are NOT interchangeable with other things. If you use their receivers, you need to use their transmitters.

The Tam Valley stuff (which is going to be iffy, based on the recent discovery of terminal cancer in the designer) is PROBABLY interchangable with maybe AirWire, but not completely.

The Tam valley stuff just puts the DCC signal over the air, unchanged. The Revolution system (as far as I understand) keeps a proprietary 2 way radio link that is NOT DCC.

If someone has proven that the Revolution system is pure DCC shifted to RF, great, but I highly doubt that it is.

For reference AirWire is shifting DCC to 900 MHz radio like the Tam Valley stuff, but they have some small timing issues where stuff sometimes does not work.

If I am in error, please advise, but I wanted to clarify that I believe post #47 is in error.

Greg
 

PhilP

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I believe Zerogee (Jon's) comment, to be shorthand, for either the Tam Valley OR the Revolution systems..
NOT a mix of both..
PhilP
 

Greg Elmassian

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This is what he said, which I do not believe to be true:
"(a Tam Valley one in my locos, but a Revo DCC board would be a direct replacement),"

Again what is transmitted over the air is different AFAIK.... the sentence says literally they are direct replacements of each other, not true...

Swapping entire systems is what can be done... and I do not recommend the Tam Valley method, DCC protocol was not designed for wireless transmission and certain functions do not work well, as well as basic DCC is unidirectional, wheras the Revolution system is bidirectional.

Greg
 

rentren

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The discussion keeps me interested. Some issues do not extend to my situation. I know that the Revolution 2 transmitter and receivers I will receive shortly, are of the DC type. Limits my sound choices to e.g. Phoenix. I listend to the electric 'voices' (see post 42) and I can live with those. The running engine with start up noises, air compressor and capable of whistle blows (no bells with Retian Railway/RhB aka as VR for Viafier Retica in Romansch) is entirely sufficient.
I have my own 'sound scape' from the RhB Station Ilanz/Glion (recent, hence a Ge 2/4 would factually have to play a role in a historic outing. Very different from the way station noises were back in 1912. I find the stationary station noises at least as attractive as noises tied to a mobile engine.
The DCC topic would seem to be of theoretical interest for me at this time. Nonetheless, I find the discussion interesting and helpful to widen my knowledge.
 

PhilP

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Do look/listen to the MyLocoSound offering..
You will get (roughly) two MLS cards, to every one Phoenix.

PhilP
 

rentren

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And off on a tangent, the Phoenix electric engine sounds listed show a.o. the a drawing of a German E44, later with DB 144, which is an entirely different affair than Phoenix' Sound Code label GE44 I qua Sound Type Ge 4/4 I and former work horse for RhB which of course is in Switzerland, not in Germany. - Just for a bit back ground.
 

rentren

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And, yes, I will also listen to MyLocoSound as there is apparently an appreciable difference in price. Thanks for the reminder, PhiliP.

Later added: listening to the samples seem to make in necessary to purchase a card and then start editing sound (possible as per MyLocoSound notes). The 'raw' items as listened to are a long way from sounds fitting electric Retian Railway engines old or new. Of course, I ought to be able to replace "All aboard" with something fitting the Grisons. Retian Railways use German, English and Romansch for announcements on station platforms as well as on board. Sample for Romansch aboard the train informing travellers in Sursilvan: Proxima fermada, Glion, then also German Nächster Halt Ilanz as well as in English: Next stop Ilanz. ('Ilanz' being the German name of the town, 'Glion' Romansch of Sursilvan variety and different from Engadine ...yeah, things are complicated :)
And just because it sounds so nice, the Station (DE) Versam-Safien in the Rhine gorge in Sursilvan: Varsomi-Stussavgia.
 
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dunnyrail

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And, yes, I will also listen to MyLocoSound as there is apparently an appreciable difference in price. Thanks for the reminder, PhiliP.

Later added: listening to the samples seem to make in necessary to purchase a card and then start editing sound (possible as per MyLocoSound notes). The 'raw' items as listened to are a long way from sounds fitting electric Retian Railway engines old or new. Of course, I ought to be able to replace "All aboard" with something fitting the Grisons. Retian Railways use German, English and Romansch for announcements on station platforms as well as on board. Sample for Romansch aboard the train informing travellers in Sursilvan: Proxima fermada, Glion, then also German Nächster Halt Ilanz as well as in English: Next stop Ilanz. ('Ilanz' being the German name of the town, 'Glion' Romansch of Sursilvan variety and different from Engadine ...yeah, things are complicated :)
And just because it sounds so nice, the Station (DE) Versam-Safien in the Rhine gorge in Sursilvan: Varsomi-Stussavgia.
You talk about editing sounds in the My Loco Sound (MLS) card. I am not sure that you can actually import your own sounds to the MLS, there are many pre loaded options that you can play around with so may end up with something near but not necessarily exactly what you want.

I would love to be proved wrong about being able to import sounds to the MLS but I do not think I am.
 

rentren

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More than playing around with preloaded material I do not expect. So an anouncement like “All aboard”importantly could not be replaced. The card thus looks not well suited to my needs.
The ability to upload one's own sounds OTOH would make it most attractive,
 
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Zerogee

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I believe Zerogee (Jon's) comment, to be shorthand, for either the Tam Valley OR the Revolution systems..
NOT a mix of both..
PhilP

Thanks Phil - yes, I was obviously not quite clear enough in my post, I had assumed my meaning was plain but as we all know, that can be a dangerous thing to do online... ;)

My last post was referring to the PHYSICAL INSTALLATION IN THE LOCO, where my use of the Tam Valley board could be simply swapped with a Revo DCC board without any changes to the wiring or internal arrangement. Obviously, one would then need to use the appropriate Revo DCC transmitter rather than the S-Cab which, as has been noted, uses a wirelessly-transmitted DCC signal as opposed to the Revo's proprietary system.

Both the Tam Valley and the Revo boards do effectively the same job IN THE LOCO - they both output the battery power and DCC signal into the DCC decoder. The difference between the systems is in the external link between the transmitter and the loco.

I did these two conversions BEFORE the Revo DCC gear was available (or at least, before I was aware of it) - at the time, the Tam Valley boards were then only option I could find to do what I wanted (full wireless DCC control) and they worked, and still work, very nicely. I have some of the Revo gear purchased subsequently, and have considered replacing the Tam boards with Revo ones at some point in the future (using, of course, the appropriate transmitters!) - it would be a very easy job of swapping the receiver boards over, which is the point I was making in the post in question, but as I'm still happy with the functionality of the TamValley/S-Cab combo for theses two locos I will probably leave them alone and use the Revo sets for other battery conversions once a suitable Round Tuit is available.

I hope that clears up any confusion for anybody, although (as Rentren has said above) the point is moot for the original direction of this thread as he has ordered the DC version of the Revo kit and thus will not be pursuing the dead-rail DCC route at this time.

Jon.
 

JZSlenker

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I’m a big fan of RCS. Tony makes some great stuff. I build my own LiFePO4 packs. Here is a pic of the USA trains 0-6-0 that I crammed full. Battery, RCS receiver, ESC, myLocosound board, and regulators to charge the battery from the rails if desired.
 

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Moonraker

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I’m a big fan of RCS. Tony makes some great stuff. I build my own LiFePO4 packs. Here is a pic of the USA trains 0-6-0 that I crammed full. Battery, RCS receiver, ESC, myLocosound board, and regulators to charge the battery from the rails if desired.
That's an impressive bit of cramming! I presume the speaker is in the cab roof? Over the years I have collected several RCS receivers which were used for testing with my soundcards. I see in your other post that you are after one. If you have no luck finding one then let me know exactly what you are after and I will see if I have one to send.

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Peter Lucas
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