Motorising of some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

beavercreek

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Those of you who know about my layout will also know the pretty heavy inclines that are on it due to the topography of the garden and its usage. I already use double/triple and even quadruple heading if I want to run long freight or haul heavy streamliner coaches up the slopes. But most of this happens with deisels. I will, when using steamers, lash-up a mallet and another heavy loco or two and this is fine. But I also have some 'weak' steam locos that I want to use at the head of consists.
The weakest one besides the Bachmann Annies is an Accucraft C16 (it has problems pulling its own shadow besides any rolling stock). So I came up with a solution...motorise ssome rolling stock.
First job was to find a motor block that had good weight and a wheelbase that more or less matched the trucks found on USAT, Aristo, Bachmann ond LGB cars. I looked at them all (LGB included) and measured them all for wheelbase. The only one that really fitted was the diecast motor block from the Aristocraft Centrecab deisel. Others were near but too long wheelbased and I wanted the 'motorising' to be as invisible as possible so the motorblock would have to have the original archbar outsides grafted on and still look fine.
The next thing was to choose the rolling stock to motorise. Ideally something with a removeable floor. The only american outline from Bachmann, USAT, Aristo or LGB, that fitted into my line's roster, with a floor that came out, was the Bachmann stockcar. This, of course, could be done with a piece of rolling stock that doesn't have a removeable floor, it just would not be so easy!
The stockcar needs some cosmetic customisation to be prototypical like a Rio grande narrow gauge but it is close enough...and it has that removable floor to make the motorising of one truck easier as well as keeping one original truck and most of the underbody detail intact during the remodelling.

Here is how it went

First get your motor block. The ones I used were very short wheelbase Aristocraft from Centrecab deisels (three bought separately but another two from a dismantled Centrecab)
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Then take off the bogie sides
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Then off with the A-Frame
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The A-Frame ready for a bit of cut and shutting
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Next is to get the donor bogie to dismantle for the truck sides
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Attach the bogie truck sides to the A-Frame with epoxy or "serious' glue there is no force on this when in use so glue is fine
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Attach the coupler bracket. (this is a little cheat as I was going to make them out of aluminium sheet myself but Tony already had a couple lying about from some kit that he had bought so ..........)
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Then the input cables (that would come from the loco original electronics) and output cables (that would have gone from the block to the original loco electronics ) are attached in a way that ensure the correct direction of wheel rotation for each stockcar motorisation.
The long grey cable is so that all the motorised stock cars can be linked, if wanted, to the 'steam' loco input for use on auto shuttle lines (so all the motorised cars will be seen as just one loco!).

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The completed motor block with its new truck sides

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Now to the customise the car to accept the motor block
First cut the floor
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The rest in the the next posting coming up right away!
 

beavercreek

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Re:Needed the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

The next thing is to make the mounting blocks for the motor block. I used timber as it was the correct height to be level and also added a bit more heft to the whole assembly. Washers were used for mounting spacers
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Floor was fitted to check clearance etc
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Mounting blocks painted black and motor block in position

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The link cable appears out of the end of the car and will be painted black and have plug and socket
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Which one is the motorised truck?
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Now to customise the markings
Take off the 'incorrect' Rio Grande narrow gauge stockcar markings
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The side parts of the walkways will also have to go as the Rio grande cars did not have them, instead only a roof mounted grab handle
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Once I have designed the decals and they are in place I will get a piccy up of the finished cars and one or two of them in operation together with cattle sound effect cards.

Hopefully the answer to one or two of my loco's lack of welly!
 

CoggesRailway

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Very intereseted to see some youtube of this. nice job. be funny to see a couple of stock cars on the loose too!
 

nicebutdim

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

That is very clever way of adding extra 'hidden' power. Even knowing one is powered it is very hard to tell. :D
 

beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

This is the cow sounds card that will be going into one of the motorised stockcars. It is made by QSI but has not been manufactured for years. The cow sounds are digital and that little pendulum thingy increases the 'peeved' attitude of the cows as it swings and makes contact with the surrounding ring as the cars lurch on their progress. This makes the cows moo a lot more and more vociferously!
The actual cow sounds are very good quality and pretty varied. I had one going in a stockcar next to the stockyard on an open day and someone remarked that we must be near to a farm!

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gregh

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Brilliant idea. I have used those motor blocks in many locos and they are great, so hope you have many hours of 'helping' your locos.
 

Richie

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Fantastic work Mike you've done a very nice job of putting the motor blocks in place :clap:
Look forward to seeing it in action with the QSI cow sound card :D
Just need a smell card now to finish off :happy:
 

beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Apologies but I have also put this bit on the weathering forum section....

Three stockcars now have motorblocks and are in need of a facelift or should I say face drop!

I wanted these three to have the well used appearance that a lot of the Rio grande narrow gauge stock cars had. They were very rarely repainted and certainly had the look of old age. Metalwork would be rusting, wood faded and stained, limewash (used to 'clean out' the cars after stock had been carried showing where it has washed out through the car side slats and then over the solebar etc

Pristine straight out of the box ready to be motorised. The Bachmann 1:29 stock car is hardly of the standard of an Accucraft 1:20.3 Stock car but it can be the basis for a good kitbash
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Fully motorised, Name board and running number boards have been changed, decals made and applied and then rust applied crudely using powders in alcohol.
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After using different powder washes and painted detail the whole lot is sealed with Testors Dullcoat ( I seem to get through this stuff at such a rate!
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All three motorised cars are finished and ready to be pressed inbto service...hopefully tomorrow evening

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Richie

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Lovely job done there Mike :love: look very nice now you've relettered & weathered them :clap: Don't look like Bachmann stock cars now , do you have other unpowered stock cars to go with these ?
 

beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Hi Richie
I will have some others to make up a good rake. I will also motorise 2 more so that other non-motorised cars as well as stock cars can be added to the rake and still be dragged up the grade.

Although I like weathering...perhaps not as much as this old jobbie! No sign of dust or cow muck now but a certain amount of rot!

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Richie

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Not sure yet to weather those AMS stock cars as they look so nice , had them both together the other day my sheep car appears to have a satin black paint finish as the cattle car is more matt i think the matt finish on the one i had from you looks better . Have weathered my old Bachmann one .
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beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Looks very nice as well Richie! I am doing one stock car that will always be just be loading by the stockyard at Pointrock and it will be weathered with active 'cow stuff'.
 

Shawn

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Mike that is a great idea. You would never know it was powered. Nice work. The center cab trucks are great. I used them on my Climax. USA also makes a truck very similair. I have to pick up another set for another loco project.
 

beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Shawn said:
USA also makes a truck very similair.
Hi Shawn
Thanks for the encouraging comments
Yes the USA 44 tonner blocks are small but still wider wheelbase than the Aristo centrecab ones. I measured them up and they would have been a little more obviously larger than the stockcar or other car bogie truck lengths. Also the Aristo ones are diecast and even heavier than the slightly larger USAT ones.

Good luck with your next project using one. I cannot get any more centrecab blocks at the moment so will be dismantling a new centre cab deisel that I got cheaper than the price for two blocks!
 

beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Well, I had a quick chance to test the three newly motorised stock cars as the sun was going down.

The strange grey cables that are sticking out from the cars are the wires that will be used as connectors to each car to 'spread' the pick-up and also be seen by the diodes in the shuttle line as only one loco. They will be practically invisible when shortened and ended with connectors. I hope that they look like brake lines when finished and connected.

First I sent them around individually and then all three linked up. A strange site indeed with no loco a runaway train!....

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Next a Bachmann Annie was introduced and gradually cars were added to test the loading.

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Then at last an Annie could haul a longish consist up the grade on my layout. Unfortunately one of the motorised stockcars began to playup nad send my TE crazy. It was taken out of service in disgrace. One of the supply cables had disconnected and was shorting intemittantly on the diecast motorblock!
The two good boys passed the bad lad

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The Annie carried on with just two motorised stockcars and even took on three more cars than is shown in the following photos ...whoooppieee

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Tony

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Looks and sounds like a job well done mike
do you still need those brackets ?
Tony
 

beavercreek

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Hi Tony
well.....besides one of cars giving a bit of jip it looks as this at last gives me the chance to run decent trains using the weaker locos in my roster. Iam going to try the motor jobs with the bigger locos like the mallet and the mikado so as to operate long trains with those but the motorised stockcars have bachmann couplers as do all the cars in the annie photos. My 'big' deisel freight uses hook and loop couplers, my 'old time' freight consist that works with the deisels uses aristo couplers. I use these as they are stronger and more secure when pulling the load up and down the slopes. I will have to find a load of aristo couplers to convert the newly motorised stockcars so that they can 'mix' with the big boys as well!
The brackets would be great as I have decided that am going to do two more cars, they may even be different ones where I have to actually cut into the floor.
So ....yes please!
 

wpandyr

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Very interesting thread and very nice work on the stock cars, but your live steam C16 should pull that consist ok without assistance.

You may find the the springing on the drivers needs sorting/ adjusting to ensure all the drivers are "driving on the rails. The pilot truck can also be too heavily sprung and take weight off the drivers. If all this is correct then I suggest you check the steam operation/valve timing of the engine, as this is a reasonably sized engine with plenty of power available so should pull well.

I had an Accucraft C16 myself and it was a very good puller.

Good luck.
 

CoggesRailway

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Mike this is such a great thread. Innovation, good modelling and a great railway. Yes I bet they looked funny heading round alone! And you have acheived your objective a nice good looking long rake without loads of loco on the front. Excellent work!!
 

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Re:Beavercreek needs the motorising some rolling stock to 'help' weak locos up slopes.

Yes, some great lateral thinking with very practical connotations - and the weathering is very effective! I know you said Aristo Centre Cab - is that the U25 bogie Mike?