LGB sumpter/uintah soundboard now in place in Bachmann Annie and it works for £30!

trammayo

Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
24 Oct 2009
21,183
3,498
72
Co. Mayo
Cheers Mike - thought that's what they were (haven't seen them for decades!) - didn't know thwy were still available.
 

alecescolme

Trains, Model Engineering, Cars
Hi Mike,
I have pinched your idea and have one of these boards in front of me now.

Please can you confirm that the red pair of wires is for track power- does it go straight to the track?

Also do you know the polarity of the speaker header?

Many thanks,
Alec
 

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,436
542
N W Leicestershire
Mike, would you be kind enough to explain in detail the critical action(s) you took between posts 10 and 11 that resulted in the required number of chuffs per rev.?
 

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,546
676
East Anglia
www.facebook.com
Hi Neil
Well I just experimented with the number of magnets put symmetrically around the back of one wheel as well as changing the poles that were directly facing the hall sensor (although it is supposed to be the South Pole that does).
BUT what was interesting was that not all the boards behaved exactly the same. No matter how exactly the same distance,number or pole of the magnets there was a difference in chuff with two boards.
But I think that I know why this might be. The two boards that had the 'difference' did not have the 'stock' wiring to the contact strip for the power. Perhaps the boards had been returned or fixed and were in the 'spares' crate when they were purchased by the seller and therefore were not working totally correctly.
Anyway after fiddling around with them I have mangaged to get them to cooperate. One has four magnets and the other has two but reverse polarity to what should be the case!

In short it is a bit of trial and error but it is definitely worth it!!
 

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,546
676
East Anglia
www.facebook.com
This is a small addendum to the thread.

Although the cards were working with the hall sensor set ups in the four loco tenders, I have not been satisfied with the consistency of the chuffs. I had tried up to 4 magnets spaced equally around the wheel backs.
Well I have got hold of an actual LGB sound trigger axle with the round 'doughnut' magnet that it has. On testing the magnet it is actually four magnets set end to end so it has 4 norths and 4 souths around the circumference.
I have now put 4 norths and 4 south magnets on the back of the wheels and hey presto the chuffs seem to be consistent and equally spaced. I am not sure if this is the same for the other LGB locos with hall sensor triggers which are not 'Mallet' configured but I would love to find out.
Does anyone have access to a trigger axle from a non-mallet LGB loco?

The wheel with 8 rare earth magnets alternating north and south pole:

b1c2d51271e64cb2a7d680ed231fa6a9.jpg
 

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,436
542
N W Leicestershire
These sound boards are now available again at reasonable prices on Ebay following a period of absence.

I`ve just finished installing one in an Aristo Vanderbilt tender. The example in the foreground is for another future installation.

I chose to make a few minor modifications to make the installation neater. The operation rod of the volume control was removed and reinserted on the opposite side after opening out the hole in the circuit board a little. The flickering firebox moulding and leds were removed as was the board with the storage capacitors. As this is an analogue installation the capacitors were still needed (for digital I`m pretty sure they are switched out with DIP switch 1) they was mounted away from the main board and wires run between the original connections.

I thought it may be useful for others to be aware that the board may be successfully modified in this manner. I thought I had blown it up for a while, it turned out that I had inadvertently pressed the two bare leads of the diode and resistor near the input together causing a short. Normal operation was restored as soon as they were separated, the two offending components are shown in the close up.

The loco driving wheels are significantly larger than the tender wheels, luckily the ratio is very close to 4:3. Six magnets, with alternating polarities, on the tender wheels give two chuffs per revolution of the loco drivers.
To clarify a South pole turns the Hall sensor on and a North, off. The sound board is configured to ignore every other input signal to give two chuffs per revolution of a standard axle mounted LGB ring magnet.

001 (640 x 480).jpg

002 (640 x 360).jpg



 

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,546
676
East Anglia
www.facebook.com
Good to see another angle on this Neil.

As with the main part of this thread, I had installed the boards in Annie tenders with DCC controlled locos. The Sumpter sound board picks up from the rails and uses the DCC supply perfectly fine as well as DC.
The tender wheels are not the same diameter as the Annie drivers (4:3) and I think if I was going to change my installations I might use your method of 3 pairs of magnets instead of the 4 pairs that I have used.
Ironically I have timed the motion against the chuff rate and it is pretty close even with the 4 pair of magnets on the tenders...... but maybe 3 would be spot on!
 

brownmat

Registered
18 Oct 2020
72
0
44
East Yorkshire
Hello is there any chance of the earlier photos for this being re-uploaded as it is something I am going to attempt.
Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,546
676
East Anglia
www.facebook.com
Hello is there any chance of the earlier photos for this being re-uploaded as it is something I am going to attempt.
Thanks in advance.
Brownmat, ask in the 'forum help' section, quote the name of the thread.....but I fear that my photos may have gone forever as the thread is about 8 years old now and the whole forum platform has been rejigged a few times since then.. This has happened on another of my threads.
I probably have the originals somewhere....
 

brownmat

Registered
18 Oct 2020
72
0
44
East Yorkshire
Good to see another angle on this Neil.

As with the main part of this thread, I had installed the boards in Annie tenders with DCC controlled locos. The Sumpter sound board picks up from the rails and uses the DCC supply perfectly fine as well as DC.
The tender wheels are not the same diameter as the Annie drivers (4:3) and I think if I was going to change my installations I might use your method of 3 pairs of magnets instead of the 4 pairs that I have used.
Ironically I have timed the motion against the chuff rate and it is pretty close even with the 4 pair of magnets on the tenders...... but maybe 3 would be spot on!
Mike - I am probably being thick here, but would I be right in saying that reducing from 4 pairs to 3 pairs would result in 3 chuffs per revolution, or have I totally missed something obvious? I am trying to achieve 4 chuffs per rev, and have ordered the magnets and sensor. Haven't really got a clue what I am doing, but its all good fun!

Thanks.
 

Tony Walsham

Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
25 Oct 2009
2,219
50
Casino, NSW
Matt. The tender wheels are much smaller than the loco drive wheels which is the example of what the chuff ratio should be.
If the tender wheels are exactly half the size of the loco then two magnets on the tender wheel for four chuff.s would be appropriate.
Problem is the tender wheels are not an easy calculation. Two magnets is not enough, Four is too many. Three may be about right.
One other tip.
I have better success when I point the reed switch at the magnets rather than have them passing alongside.
 

brownmat

Registered
18 Oct 2020
72
0
44
East Yorkshire
Thanks for your reply Tony, but I think I must still be missing something! How do 3 magnets equate to 4 chuffs?
 

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,546
676
East Anglia
www.facebook.com
Matt, if you use three pairs of magnets on the tender wheels you will get what seems like three chuffs per revolution of the tender wheel but it will be approximately 4 chuffs for the driver wheels (the tender ones being smaller in circumference and rotating faster).
This use of magnets in polarity swap pairs is only if you are using a hall sensor (like LGB do on their axle chuff set-up)... but if you are using a plain reed switch you only need to use three single magnets with the same polarity facing the reed switch.
The Sumpter sound board is set up for a hall sensor but it could be adapted for a reed switch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Tony Walsham

Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
25 Oct 2009
2,219
50
Casino, NSW
Matt,
Mike and I are saying the same thing.
You cannot get an accurate 4 x chuffs from a tender wheel with two magnets on a tender wheel that is not an accurate mathematical division of the loco wheels. That is exactly 1/2 the size. With a non divisible size you can only ever expect a reasonable match.
Three magnets may give you a more accurate result than two magnets will.
The only really accurate result will be achieved by working out a way of putting 4 x magnets on the loco wheel.
Can't help you with Hall effect sensors. I have no idea how they work.
 

brownmat

Registered
18 Oct 2020
72
0
44
East Yorkshire
So - I was being really thick as the penny has now dropped! Sorry - thanks for the guidance. I know exactly what you are both referring to now.

Cheers - and Merry Christmas!
 

brownmat

Registered
18 Oct 2020
72
0
44
East Yorkshire
Further to the kind suggestions above, I have bought some hall sensors and magnets and tested them with a simple LED set up which turns on when you bring the magnet near and off when you take it away! I bought these sensors https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01M2WASFL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Whilst it is an old board (from an LGB 2019s) it does work, and it will happily let off steam, blow its whistle and ring its bell, but I cannot get the chuff to chuff. I do know which pins to be used, but I guess its down to me not knowing the order with which pins should go to which leg on the sensor. From my research (which could be wrong!) whilst looking at the text on the sensor, the left leg is +, mid leg is - and the right leg is the sender. Can any one offer any suggestions?

I am really reluctant to give up now, but am struggling with what to do next!

Thanks.

Chuff wiring.jpg
 

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
27,713
2,864
Tamworth, Staffs.
The 'chuff' input will be looking for a simple switch to ground (negative).
But, the board may well not be configured to use the chuff-senor.

You can test this (as I assume you know which connection is the chuff input) by making /breaking a connection between negative and the chuff-pin

PhilP.
 

brownmat

Registered
18 Oct 2020
72
0
44
East Yorkshire
Thanks Phil - I know that the pins I need on the board shown are those on the right - WS, BR, GN. Sadly, I do not know which pin does what. Would you have any suggestions? I think the legs on my sensor are left leg +, mid leg - and the right leg sender. I should mention that the board came out of the 2019s as the sound has been updated. I am trying to add the board above to a bachmann annie.
 
Last edited: