LGB R3 v PIKO R3 (The differences)

Gizzy

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
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I thought that I would do a short thread showing the differences between LGB and PIKO R3 curves.

A while ago, Zerogee mentioned to me that PIKO 35213 R3 are a smaller radius (921.54 mm or 36.3 inch) than LGB 16000 R3 (1243 mm or 49 inch), and that they will work nicely together should anyone want double track.

Intrigued, I decided I would check this for myself. The picture shows PIKO inside LGB.

thumbnail_20230221_103105.jpg


Points to note that PIKO are 30 deg, so 12 to a circle and LGB are 22.5 deg so 16 to a circle.

Track centre to track centre is 321.5 mm or 12.5 inch.....
 
I also looked at how the PIKO R3 looks compared to LGB R1 and R2.

I have a double tracked oval/ return loop at the end of my layout, so I placed the PIKO R3 next to this for comparison.

thumbnail_20230221_103604.jpg

Although this difference of radii can be confusing, it can also be used to our advantage especially for someone like me who has a restricted space to place curves.

I don't have the space for LGB R3 curves, but I might be able to find room for a double track curve using LGB R2 and PIKO R3 in the future.

So for me, this would be a good compromise....
 
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Gizzy said:
I also looked at how the PIKO R3 looks compared to LGB R1 and R2.

I have a double tracked oval/ return loop at the end of my layout, so I placed the PIKO R3 next to this for comparison.

View attachment 310294

Although this difference can be confusing, it can also be used to our advantage especially for someone like me who has a restricted space to place curves.

I don't have the space for LGB R3 curves, but I might be able to find room for double track curve using LGB R2 and PIKO R3 in the future.

So for me, this would be a good compromise....
Click to expand...
What was the centre to centre measurement between LGB r2 and Piko r3 ? I have it written down somewhere safe! Seem to recall it was tighter than LGB r1 to LGB r2.
 
thanks i was unaware of this very useful option.

How do the piko r3 fit with lgb points?
 
stevedenver said:
thanks i was unaware of this very useful option.

How do the piko r3 fit with lgb points?
Click to expand...
I've not tried this yet Steve, but as PIKO R3 are 30 deg, they can be used with LGB R1 points without any short 7.5 deg curves.

I believe PIKO points have this extra curved piece of track to work with the geometry of both track systems....
 
Eeyore.Boater said:
What was the centre to centre measurement between LGB r2 and Piko r3 ? I have it written down somewhere safe! Seem to recall it was tighter than LGB r1 to LGB r2.
Click to expand...
R2 is 823 mm or 32.4 inch, so I calculate 98.5 mm or 4 inch, which does seem tight....
 
I may need a LH point, equivalent to the non-existent LGB R2. I want to add a turnout from a curve of LGB R2 track. I gather, reading the above, I have a choice between PIKO and Trainline 45.

If I go with Trainline 45 is there a supplier in the UK? And if not do the two German suppliers (Modell-land and Trainline themselves) ship to the UK?

Can't see Grossbritannien on the Modell-land website but no specofic exclusion like some. Trainline have a"none of the above" Worldwide category. Flying to Germany although I love to visit, to buy a single item seems like overkill.
 
OBBherr said:
I may need a LH point, equivalent to the non-existent LGB R2. I want to add a turnout from a curve of LGB R2 track. I gather, reading the above, I have a choice between PIKO and Trainline 45.

If I go with Trainline 45 is there a supplier in the UK? And if not do the two German suppliers (Modell-land and Trainline themselves) ship to the UK?

Can't see Grossbritannien on the Modell-land website but no specofic exclusion like some. Trainline have a"none of the above" Worldwide category. Flying to Germany although I love to visit, to buy a single item seems like overkill.
Click to expand...
I brought my Trainline R2 points from Glendale before they retired.

I may have a left hander I no longer require. It will be 22.5 deg arc angle, so you may need to cut a short piece of 7.5 deg to match the 30 deg R2 curves.

It's raining atm, so I'll check tomorrow and send you a PM if I have one....
 
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If you want actual LGB R2 radius then PIKO R3 is too big. Betram Heyn does an equivalent to an LGB R2 in kit form or assembled, and he does ship to UK. It's 22.5 degree but he sells a small 7.5 degree bend to make it up to 30 degree to match LGB R2 geometry.
 
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OBBherr said:
Can't see Grossbritannien on the Modell-land website but no specofic exclusion like some
Click to expand...

Someone on the forum mentioned that Modell-land had stopped supplying the UK and (in September 2021) I queried with them why there was still a Great Britain postage rate displayed. Their answer was . . .

1678814162644.png

A follow-up enquiry as to WHY elicited only . . .

1678814218284.png

Of course, if you can persuade them to change their mind, many of us would be pleased to hear about it. On the other hand, if anyone is going to visit them in person, please let us know in advance, so we can ask you to pick up a few 'bits and bobs' for us too!

Cheers

David
 
Thank you David. I was afraid of that (re Modell-land).

Also thank you Dave. Given the 100% premium for Heyn assembled, have you had experience of the kit option? I notice the instructions are German only but that's a minor problem thanks to Google translate.
 
I've not assembled a Heyn point but I have done a couple of crossovers.

From what I remember, they were reasonably easy to do with the diagram and then doing a dry run....

thumbnail_20221014_094831.jpg
 
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<Drift>-ish
It would be very nice if Bertram could be persuaded to come to a show in the UK again...

However, post Brexit, I fear this will never happen?
:cry:

PhilP
 
The ideal match to R2 is an Aristo "wide radius" switch, curved throughout and 5' radius just like LGB R2

www.ebay.co.uk

Aristocraft ART-30370 Wide Radius (10' diam) Right Hand Turnout | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Aristocraft ART-30370 Wide Radius (10' diam) Right Hand Turnout at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk
 
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PhilP said:
<Drift>-ish
It would be very nice if Bertram could be persuaded to come to a show in the UK again...

However, post Brexit, I fear this will never happen?
:cry:

PhilP
Click to expand...
He came to Llanfair before Flu and Brexit and had a holiday in Wales too.

He did bring some useful stuff which was nice to see for real, rather than on-line....
 
Greg Elmassian said:
The ideal match to R2 is an Aristo "wide radius" switch, curved throughout and 5' radius just like LGB R2

www.ebay.co.uk

Aristocraft ART-30370 Wide Radius (10' diam) Right Hand Turnout | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Aristocraft ART-30370 Wide Radius (10' diam) Right Hand Turnout at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk
Click to expand...
I might be mistaken, but Aristo X-wide is 5' radius and LGB R2 is 5' diameter (or metric approximation), no?
 
OBBherr said:
Thank you David. I was afraid of that (re Modell-land).

Also thank you Dave. Given the 100% premium for Heyn assembled, have you had experience of the kit option? I notice the instructions are German only but that's a minor problem thanks to Google translate.
Click to expand...
There's a review of the kit by me on here. It's a bit fiddly but straightforward.
EDIT
Here:

Bertram Heyn R2 point kit review

This is a review of the Bertram Heyn R2 point kit. This makes an LGB R2 standard (780mm radius) 22.5 degree point, in this case a right hand point. The straight portion of the point in 330mm long. Note this point has a "live frog" so you need a switch to provide the correct polarity power to...
www.gscalecentral.net www.gscalecentral.net
 
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