LGB 20590 or 21590 Kof Breakdown Diagrams

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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How tedious as I have found this in the past and now lost it and need to pull mine to bits to sort out a problem. Not present on Only Trains or Model Railway Forum listings which are in my bookmarks. Any help appreciated.
JonD
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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25 Oct 2009
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Thanks guys, but the one I want is not listed nor is 20620 the beast as you can see from the pics below.
84937_a97d46bee901e4e0e1933ce5747c7464.jpeg
84938_1184ed9c8ea2e04ec58c0886f73aabe3.jpeg

20620 left, 20590 to the right. Note the Fly Crank at the rear on my 20590.
Very similar but quite different.

So still looking.
JonD
 
Gavin Sowry

Gavin Sowry

Garden Railroader and Raconteur
27 Oct 2009
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I think if you disregard the second digit, you end up with basically the same model, but just different version.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
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North Essex
I think if you disregard the second digit, you end up with basically the same model, but just different version.
Yes, that's my understanding too.... which is why JonD, the OP, is looking for the diagrams for a 2x590, not a 2x620.....

Jon.
 
Gavin Sowry

Gavin Sowry

Garden Railroader and Raconteur
27 Oct 2009
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Yes, that's my understanding too.... which is why JonD, the OP, is looking for the diagrams for a 2x590, not a 2x620.....

Jon.
Seem to be missing from all the usual search listings. :cry:
 
Lobethalbahn2

Lobethalbahn2

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21 Dec 2009
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Canberra
The exploded drawing I posted (see post #2) is for the HF130c/2x590; the 70580 number is because the drawing is linked to the Wangerooge starter set (catalogue #70580) from a few years back which included one of these locos.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

Registered
3 Jan 2010
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I appreciate that the Maerklin diagrams are only there to let you check the reference numbers of often-required spare parts but (unless I've got my versions in a twist) isn't it odd that the drawing depicts a model that they've never actually made? Let me explain. This basic model has been made in (at least) five versions.

20590 (black over red) has the "old" cab and the "smooth" bonnet sides
21590 (maroon over black) has the "new" cab and the "profiled" bonnet sides
22592 (black over red, with sound) has the "old" cab and the "smooth" bonnet sides
23590 (red/cream over grey) has the "old" cab and the "profiled" bonnet sides
70580 (maroon over black) has the "old" cab and the "profiled" bonnet sides

The one combination not included in my list is the "new" cab with the "smooth" bonnet sides - the very combination featured in the diagram attributed to the 70580! Or is there a further version I've not found? In any event it's odd to publish a drawing and attribute it to (only) the 70580 that is the very opposite of the combination found on that loco?

Cheers
David
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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The other interesting thing about the Maerklin one there is no view of the Wiring Looms on the link. I do not need them as it turns out but strange.
JonD
 
SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

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3 Jan 2010
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I'm sorry to revive this old thread but I was wanting to find an exploded diagram for my 21590. The link in Post 2 no longer works (just says "No input file specified."). So I went exploring on the LGB website and found what Marklin seem to be offering as exploded diagrams for two of the other variants of this 6-wheel-with-jackshaft diesel - 23591 (which has different cab and bonnet sides to the one I want) and 70580 (right bonnet sides, but wrong cab). Those "differences of detail" are somewhat irrelevant as both of the Marklin diagrams, while showing the correct 6-wheel-with-jackshaft motor block, are showing a totally incorrect underframe, cab and bonnet. The ones pictured are from the 2x900 series of 4-wheel diesels!

Thinking that this might have been an unfortunate cut-and-paste error on the part of the Marklin draughtsman (by not being famliar with the actual models) I thought I'd let them know, certain that they would want to correct this slip-up.

I duly filled in the Contact Form on the LGB website, explaining the error in some detail, but couldn't get it to send the message. A second attempt to send the form was equally unsuccesful (this was early April), so I submitted the message on the Contact Page from the Marklin website instead (also advising them about the fault on the LGB contact form).

A month later I got a response that ignored everything I had written just referring me to the very diagram I had described as incorrect

"we are sorry but for this model is no old spare part list available. We can only offer a spare part list for the newer model out of the set 70580 under https://www.maerklin.de/service/produktservice/listengenerator.php?brand=7&artikelnummer=70580&lang=1"

I replied by asking them if they had read what I had written in my original message, and amplified my original point with some actual diagrams from their website.

Their second response paid little heed to my comments, stating merely that . . .

"Please note, that a spare part drawing is made to identify the position of a spare part. In detail it can be different from the real design of a part"

The old LGB exploded diagrams showed each part individually, so were a great help when reassembling a model (which is the reason I was seeking an exploded diagram in the first place) and allowed each and every component to be identified if a replacement was required. Under Marklin, we seem to only get more generalised drawings, with a much more limited set of components that we are allowed to obtain.

Taking Marklin at their word, however, it would seem that I could choose to order item number 27 which the PDF lists as E147 737, and describes as "Dachhaken". Google Translate tells me that this means "Roof Hooks". The order form refers to the spare parts with three digits but, since they just add a zero to the end of whatever the PDF says, it's not difficult to choose item 270, still called "Dachhaken", still (give or take a space) number E147737, but also helpfully tells me I get a set of four. The "only" problem is that the model that Marklin is telling me to use this exploded diagram for (21590) doesn't have roof hooks at all and, while the model whose cab is pictured on the PDF (2x900) does have roof hooks, they are moulded onto the cab roof rather than being separate components! If I placed an order (and I'm not going to), I wonder what I'd get!

More seriously, if I wanted to obtain a replacement of either of the items that are on the cab roof of the model I have (or the handrails on the bonnet, or a miriad of other small and easily lost parts), I can't! How Peter at Chalk Garden Rail (the UK LGB Service Agent) copes, I can't imagine!

So, at the end of what is in danger of becoming a rant, where are we? Were we "spoiled" under the family ownership of LGB? Or are Marklin really not interested in providing a decent level of support for their current and past customers?

Best wishes

David
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Ah, for some time it has been 'difficult' to get ANY spares.. - You also needed to know which bits to order to get the bits you actually wanted!
At least Marklin are supposedly supplying spares for new models. - I doubt they have that many spares for the older (pre-marklin) models.
Frustrating, considering how long-lived the models are, and their cost.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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No problems restarting an older thread your recent boost is most enlighteneing. I looked here to find my found again and now lost diagram for my 20590 and indeed it has gone and thus far via Champex (cant find the breakdowns here downs at all) or on this link:-

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2974

None of the options listed. Looks like if you find you required drawing it is always as well to download it to your PC in a certain well known location rather than relying on links that 'do a runner'. And I would suggest thinking about doing this at least for all of your Locomotives as you buy them where you can find the .pdf.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Tamworth, Staffs.
Not on LGB Service CD III either..
or in the hard-copy service sheet folder I have. :(
 
SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

Registered
3 Jan 2010
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7
This may help. It is for the latest black SOEG version 23591 from lgb.de
https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/56/8c/568cc053d8844731fb3be1552b0c825f1510754761.pdf
Need to go to page 46 of 48 for the exploded parts diagram, and page 47 lists the spare parts in German only.
Thanks for sharing this . . . but the diagram on page 46 is the one where the motor block is the right one . . . but the underframe, cab and bonnet are from the 2x900 (4-wheel) models.

Page 47 does add the advice that "Parts that are not listed here can only be repairedby the Märklin repair service department".

Best wishes

David
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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Similarly thanks for the link. Now saved in my Books for reference.

One does wonder why Maerklin would hide all of the older sheets as there must be many of us who need to maintain older products from LGB, perhaps they are hoping that we will trash the older ones and buy newer Maerklin offerings?
 
palmerston

palmerston

trains
24 Oct 2009
501
1
Netherlands, near Aachen ;-)
As the old LGB never produced an exploded view despite the loco being in production for several years at the time of bankrupty it could well be the design has been done by a third party, like Piko. They did design the V200. Maybe they havent got payed for their work and still keep the CAD-files. Hence this copy and paste drawing.

The pictures in the manual showing the switch and the rear socket are just photos converted to vectors.

In the future Marklin may buy the files, as they did with Hubner (gauge 1) and Brawa RhB G4/5.

The HF130C is my favourite loco and am in the process of converting to battery, with DCC?! and both uncouplers.
 
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