LGB 20301 (steeple cab electric) MFX decoder

[Dodod driver]

A friend has bought one of these locos in used condition. It runs OK on analogue power, with lights and some sounds working. On dcc power it worked briefly but now is totally dead.

Is it likely that the chip has failed? Is it possible to confirm this by testing?

Thank you for any suggestions.

 

[dunnyrail]

A friend has bought one of these locos in used condition. It runs OK on analogue power, with lights and some sounds working. On dcc power it worked briefly but now is totally dead.

Is it likely that the chip has failed? Is it possible to confirm this by testing?

Thank you for any suggestions.

Do you have the ability to read the decoder? If it reads it is likely that something else may have been ‘messed about with’. A return to default condition may resolve the issue. But what DCC system is he using?

 

[PhilP]

A friend has bought one of these locos in used condition. It runs OK on analogue power, with lights and some sounds working. On dcc power it worked briefly but now is totally dead.

Is it likely that the chip has failed? Is it possible to confirm this by testing?

Thank you for any suggestions.

Firstly, I would use a DC bench power supply...

You can see if anything is drawing current, and what voltage things begin to run at. - No current drawn, switched off, broken/bad pickup, decoder not seated properly.

Then you put it on a programming track, and see if you can read any of the CV's. - Start simple with the address, then CV29.
After that, will depend on what you think the decoder is, and the DCC system in use.

All the time, use your eyes, ears and nose. - Did it twitch? Did the lights flicker? Does it make a noise (not necessarily sounds from the decoder). Does it smell? - Hot electronics..

PhilP.

 

[Dodod driver]

Do you have the ability to read the decoder? If it reads it is likely that something else may have been ‘messed about with’. A return to default condition may resolve the issue. But what DCC system is he using?

Thank you for your reply. He tells me that he gets no response when using his Massoth navigator and associated Massoth power supply. This set-up drives his other chipped LGB loco ( also with sounds) successfully.

The switch in the loco cab is held in by two cheese-headed bolts, one above and one below. I have never seen an LGB cab switch installed like this before, and wonder if some-one may have broken the original and changed the switch. I'd have to dismantle more of the loco cab electrics to inspect this, which I'm reluctant to do.

 

[Dodod driver]

Firstly, I would use a DC bench power supply...

You can see if anything is drawing current, and what voltage things begin to run at. - No current drawn, switched off, broken/bad pickup, decoder not seated properly.

Then you put it on a programming track, and see if you can read any of the CV's. - Start simple with the address, then CV29.
After that, will depend on what you think the decoder is, and the DCC system in use.

All the time, use your eyes, ears and nose. - Did it twitch? Did the lights flicker? Does it make a noise (not necessarily sounds from the decoder). Does it smell? - Hot electronics..

PhilP.

Thank you for your thoughts. The loco runs well on a DC supply, so I think pick-ups are working well. I tested them all on DC on a bench. Sound cuts in as soon as speed rises above a crawl. The sound is an electric motor, plus the occasional hiss of brakes.

From this I assume that the decoder is at least partially working. I'm reluctant to remove it from the loco as it looks very tightly packed in, being a small loco.

He tells me that he gets no response of any kind on his Massoth dcc system, which is controlling his other chipped loco normally.
I'll pass on all replies to him, and see if it helps.

Dodod Driver.

 

[PhilP]

Runs on DC. Tick.
Sound above 5-6V. Tick.
No response from DCC system?

Hmmm....
Wrong address?
DCC protocol turned off in MFX decoder?

I think it needs a good hard stare, on a programming track..
If being used on a DCC system (not MFX) I would disable MFX, for a start.
Check address values.
Check CV29. - Long address / short address, speed-steps.
Read the CV's to get an idea of the manufacturer of the decoder. - If not known.

PhilP.

 

[dunnyrail]

Sounds very like an address issue. This can be most frustrating, reading and updating Cv’s with the Massoth DCC system very dooable but needs to be done with care. A short length of track with wires from the Prog Out screws likely the best bet then read and program using programming track.

 

[Dodod driver]

Runs on DC. Tick.
Sound above 5-6V. Tick.
No response from DCC system?

Hmmm....
Wrong address?
DCC protocol turned off in MFX decoder?

I think it needs a good hard stare, on a programming track..
If being used on a DCC system (not MFX) I would disable MFX, for a start.
Check address values.
Check CV29. - Long address / short address, speed-steps.
Read the CV's to get an idea of the manufacturer of the decoder. - If not known.

PhilP.

Thank you very much for the suggestions. I will pas them on.

 

[Software Tools]

The switch in the loco cab is held in by two cheese-headed bolts, one above and one below. I have never seen an LGB cab switch installed like this before, and wonder if some-one may have broken the original and changed the switch. I'd have to dismantle more of the loco cab electrics to inspect this, which I'm reluctant to do.

AFAIK, only the current (orange) version of the steeple cab loco came with factory installed DCC.... is that the one your friend has?

 

[Dodod driver]

Looking in the bodywork, the electronic board seems tightly fitted but very neat. There are various sections of polystyrene and weights also in the body. It looks to me as though this was factory fitted, unless you know otherwise?

 

[PhilP]

It is very neat..
However, although I use/supply those speakers, I have not seen them used in OEM models (to date) and the use of XPS (expanded polystyrene) is not something I have seen, or would expect.

If that is a double-sided sticky-pad (just visible through the hole in the middle, I think that gives it away as a very competent aftermarket installation. - I also think this is how the decoder is secured? I don't see fixing screws?

PhilP.

 

[dunnyrail]

Here is some AI information about the loco manufactured in 2019 thus I believe it would be fitted with MFX compatible decoder, I have found these decoders to be problematical with a Massoth system. One is for sale at Chalk linked further down. Interesting that there has been a duplication using the number with an early set, did not think that occurred but since LGB takeover anything appears possible!

“The LGB 20301 Electric Loco “E1” model you’re asking about was manufactured in 2019 as a catalog/new product release by LGB (with availability starting around August 30 2019).

This E1 (electric locomotive) is a modern G-scale model (Era IV style) distinct from the older LGB 20301 starter set that used the Stainz steam loco.

If you’re referring to a specific original starter set version of LGB 20301 (historically), that item number was used on starter sets over many years beginning in 1968, but the Electric Loco E1 itself as a standalone new model was manufactured and released in 2019. “

LGB 20301 Electric Loco E1/Chalk Garden Rail

LGB 20301 Electric Loco E1 with sound 1 in Stock

www.chalkgardenrail.co.uk

 

[Dodod driver]

It is very neat..
However, although I use/supply those speakers, I have not seen them used in OEM models (to date) and the use of XPS (expanded polystyrene) is not something I have seen, or would expect.

If that is a double-sided sticky-pad (just visible through the hole in the middle, I think that gives it away as a very competent aftermarket installation. - I also think this is how the decoder is secured? I don't see fixing screws?

PhilP.

You may well be right that it is not original. If the opportunity comes along, I'll look at the sticky pad. The cheese-headed screws on the cab switch struck me as odd, and possibly not original.

I wasn't planning to remove the chip so didn't look at it closely. I happened to see one screw in the top left corner. There may be more.

 

[Dodod driver]

Here is some AI information about the loco manufactured in 2019 thus I believe it would be fitted with MFX compatible decoder, I have found these decoders to be problematical with a Massoth system. One is for sale at Chalk linked further down. Interesting that there has been a duplication using the number with an early set, did not think that occurred but since LGB takeover anything appears possible!

“The LGB 20301 Electric Loco “E1” model you’re asking about was manufactured in 2019 as a catalog/new product release by LGB (with availability starting around August 30 2019).

This E1 (electric locomotive) is a modern G-scale model (Era IV style) distinct from the older LGB 20301 starter set that used the Stainz steam loco.

If you’re referring to a specific original starter set version of LGB 20301 (historically), that item number was used on starter sets over many years beginning in 1968, but the Electric Loco E1 itself as a standalone new model was manufactured and released in 2019. “

LGB 20301 Electric Loco E1/Chalk Garden Rail

LGB 20301 Electric Loco E1 with sound 1 in Stock

www.chalkgardenrail.co.uk

Thank you for the link, and your comment that the decoder did not work well with Massoth. That might be the answer.

 

[wandgrudd]

That's a factory fitted loco ie OEM, identical to mine including speaker and XPS foam, the sticky pad you can see is for the driver. Lgb / marklin use that speaker type in loads of locos now, including the little 040 steam locos (As in my logo). If you can wait a few days I will find mine out the shed and get some pictures to compare but I'm sure from memory that mines identical.

 

[wandgrudd]

 

[wandgrudd]

So the picture above is from my loco the small extra red cable is for the lgb buffer that I have added in the cab other than that it's identical, note I have moved the driver and stick pad so that I could get the cable through the hole.

 

[PhilP]

Thank you for this.
Well I never, you learn something new every day.

I know it is supported in other ways, but not impressed with a single screw holding the decoder in place. - Is it stuck down as well?

PhilP.

 

[wandgrudd]

Thank you for this.
Well I never, you learn something new every day.

I know it is supported in other ways, but not impressed with a single screw holding the decoder in place. - Is it stuck down as well?

PhilP.

Its solid so I assume it has another screw under the chip, but haven't looked. it's a bit basic by LGB standards although it has sound and lights, it's has no cab lighting and or power pick up from the pantograph, but these can be added. It's also ridiculously light and doesn't pull as well as the older gen LGB version I also have.

 

[LGB_Chur_Arosa]

That looks likeLGB 55029 MFX decoder. This decoder is factory installed in many LGB's with factory loaded profiles. It should work in DCC mode unless the DCC mode has been delibrately disabled (by default DCC is always allowed). To check if DCC mode has been disabled you need access to an MFX controller such as Marklin CS3 which will show you the settings under "formats" in the settings section (shown below)