Issues with Aristo 5471/5473 rx/tx

maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Having just got everything finally sorted on my K-27 battery conversion - thanks to all here and Steve at Fosworks (more on that elsewhere shortly) my venerable (16 year old) Aristo 5471/3 Train Engineer combo seems to be having problems. I noted when I was doing an "off-line" polarity test for the K-27's rear light (I wanted a power supply independent of the on-board batteries) that the voltage on the leads would not drop or vary from 8.5 or 16.9 volts (see below) on either the slow/fast or emergency stop control buttons on the 5473 transmitter. It would respond to reverse polarity comands though. I have checked the following -

Battery power in tx - ok.
Fuse in rx ok and power and reciver LEDs ok.
Tried both Linear and PWM output settings.
Re-bound tx to rx on different channel (changed from #2-4).
Noted reliable operation of LED (blink) on tx & rx to all commands from tx.
Noted rx responds to voltage polarity command from tx. Confirmed by multi-meter reading.
No responce to voltage control or emergency stop commands despite rx LED blinking in responce to a command from tx. Just fixed at voltages shown below.
Shows a fixed track voltage being outputted at rx's terminals at all time dependent on voltage output settings on Crest 55465 - see below.
Tx led flashes once when each command button is pressed, correct channel selected.
Tx DIRection LED light sequence operates correctly dependent on polarity.
Tx SPeeD LED light sequence does not operate despite rx outputting a track of voltage 16.9 on Crest's 22V setting and 8.5 oon 13.8 setting - could this be a big clue ?
Checked tx's ariel was good and made sure there was a separation of over 3ft between tx & rx.
Opened up both tx & rx to make sure all was clean with no obvious damage, breakages.or debris.

I think that is everything. The only thing I haven't done is attach a loco to it (have rollers) for the obvious reasons. Any thoughts or am I looking at finding a new way to cotrol my track powered locos. My hassels never seem to end. Finally fix one thing, with lots of great advise and support from that army known as "Centalistas" and something else bites my bum :banghead:. Max
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
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In a word, it's broken.

Sounds like output transistors are shorted, clearly everything but the output stage is working. You should indeed test it under load. Not sure you say trying a loco is NG for obvious reasons. You measured the output and it can be no worse that what you measured, i.e. cannot damage the loco, since you get a DC output voltage.

Try the loco, or just hook a motor to the output.

Greg
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Thanks Greg. I'll hook the rx up to my Massoth rollers and pop my Accucraft Porter on and see what happens. I presume you mean the output transistors on the 5471 rx ? Nothing to do with the 5473 tx handset then ? Just wondering as the LED's do not light up when the tx's SPD button is pressed, I was wondering if it was not sending any instructions to the rx. How does the tx know what the rx's voltage output is set at ?

So is all lost, apart from tracking down a new/old stock or 2nd hand 5471 ? Hmmm. Max

The patient - inside
120876_9cc4808df2696d6775babc07315cbe90.jpg



Outside

120880_3e554384ed4ce13fdcb015272804c108.jpg
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,524
234
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Oh dear Max, looks like you may be investigating some more Battery Conversions.
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Now I'm really scratching my head. Tried both my 0-4-0 porter and Bachmann Climax and the rx seems to be responding to commands from the tx's slow/fast and emergency stop buttons, as per readings taken from the mutimeter at the rx's output terminals. However no signs of life from either loco on the attached rollers. Checked on the Climax that all the switches were set correctly - track power, DC, motor on, NMRA polarity. RX's power set to Linear, there aren't any on the Porter.

Don't want to risk the locos any more as when I jiggled the Porter I saw some sparks at the roller/driver interface although the motors were not turning. Both locos mentioned, as are all my track powered ones, are good reliable runners - at least up to when last used. No amps seem to be being drawn at the at the Crest, looking at its ammeter. Not put the multimeter on that to check any actual current draw. So what's the diagnosis ? Note to Greg :) - I'll see if I can find an old slot car motor lying around and see what happens. Max

P.S. Jon - No ! But thank heavens for the 2 battery conversions (and live steamers) so I have something to run, despite all the pain and aggravation I have had getting reliable operation from both battery powered locos for various reasons (self inflicted and otherwise). It is tempting though, if it comes to that, to look at a box car based solution for the 5 members of the WWL Co. "logging" fleet, not so practical for the West Well division of the D&RGW that runs here. I wonder if I could use the beefy Fosworks Cobra linked to my Omni TX, powered by the Crest (that thing can kick out upto 20 amps) to power the track. If so the only problem then is that the Cobra outputs PWM and the Bachmann locos (all bar 1 of my track powered fleet) I am told don't like PWM. I think we have been here before.
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Update - It's all working again ! :party:

Well, tested Climax loco on rollers with the 1 amp Gaugemaster controller from my 009 layout. Loco works fine, LED's flicker at 2v and motions start loco motioning at 4v. So nothing apparently wrong with the loco and Massoth rollers. Next - hook up old "Professor Motor" 22K rpm 12v Mabuchi "S Can" slot car motor to the Gaugemaster. Yep that works, and a back up motor of the same type too. So, attach old slot car motor to the fly leads, with croc clips, from the Aristo RX. It all works as it should ! Acid test - attach fly leads to Massoth rollers with Climax loco sat on them - it all works perfectly too. Happy Max, fingers crossed.

So I wonder what caused the apparent initial malfunction, with the voltages stuck at around mid point, and how did it seem to clear itself ? Thought of further battery conversions on hold for now Jon but the idea interests me of a boxcar mounted RC/Battery unit as a stand by. As I understand it some of my Bachmann locos can have their pick ups switched out to allow a battery power hook up without the need to rip out all the other electrical gubbins. Must take a look see. I'm not sure if this is tempting fate with my track record here :think: :D Max
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,782
274
Tamworth, Staffs.
Something like this?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,782
274
Tamworth, Staffs.
Yeeers....

The ability to post piccy's, would appear to have virtually disappeared? :oops::(:mad:
 
Chris Vernell

Chris Vernell

Bewildered
24 Oct 2009
4,045
167
72
Nepean, ON
The ability to post piccy's, would appear to have virtually disappeared? :oops::(:mad:
Yes, I keep getting a "server error occurred" message when I try
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
2,666
120
San Diego
www.elmassian.com
The problem is with uploading and storing the picture.
You can obviously post a picture that has a URL as seen below.
The upload process goes through the motions of uploading then you get the server error.... maybe out of space in that directory or some permission problem..

Greg


Update, if you use the attach files button below, and then image, it works, just not the quick icon at top.

120941_28d21a0f3fb7c1e12e721b65966fd85a.jpg
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,524
234
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Update - It's all working again ! :party:

Well, tested Climax loco on rollers with the 1 amp Gaugemaster controller from my 009 layout. Loco works fine, LED's flicker at 2v and motions start loco motioning at 4v. So nothing apparently wrong with the loco and Massoth rollers. Next - hook up old "Professor Motor" 22K rpm 12v Mabuchi "S Can" slot car motor to the Gaugemaster. Yep that works, and a back up motor of the same type too. So, attach old slot car motor to the fly leads, with croc clips, from the Aristo RX. It all works as it should ! Acid test - attach fly leads to Massoth rollers with Climax loco sat on them - it all works perfectly too. Happy Max, fingers crossed.

So I wonder what caused the apparent initial malfunction, with the voltages stuck at around mid point, and how did it seem to clear itself ? Thought of further battery conversions on hold for now Jon but the idea interests me of a boxcar mounted RC/Battery unit as a stand by. As I understand it some of my Bachmann locos can have their pick ups switched out to allow a battery power hook up without the need to rip out all the other electrical gubbins. Must take a look see. I'm not sure if this is tempting fate with my track record here :think: :D Max
If your Loco allows it, a Battery Car can be a good solution after all you probably rarely have more than one Loco running at a time as a rule. Though I do know of brave soles that will single handed lay run many Locomotives. As for the Battery Van Set Up, would not suit me for operations but Nicolas Trudgian has used it most succesfully on his Southern Cross Railway. But then he has a very long line with Loops at each end, thus running round a train will probably be rarely done.
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

Phase 1 complete, roll on Phase 2
23 Feb 2018
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65
Weston-super-Mare
Yes, I keep getting a "server error occurred" message when I try
I found that it will not upload photos larger than 2MB, I have had the same error, shrunk the photo and no problems!
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Greg beware, my cat Jessie is very territorial, despite her "come hither" charms ;) She will not tolerate other cats on her thread. Now how about carrying on the drift towards battery trailer cars. That might be a natural progression. Eh, Jon & Phil ?

120999_7dde5beb57dbe9187e142fff59469fe1.jpg
 
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PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,782
274
Tamworth, Staffs.
Similar thing, but with a MyLocoSound card and speaker..
This is a gauge O box-van.

O gauge trail-car
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,782
274
Tamworth, Staffs.
All we need is a picture of someone's (slightly above average) dinner, and we have a full-set!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Yet another excuse for me to post this cantankerous cat here -

121053_79b29cb98ee34d4076614a5aa9447242.jpg


P.S. Phil that looks interesting. Nice compact installations. Could see one trailing a Shay/Climax/Heisler. Now how do we speed up a MyLocoSound card to get the right chuff rate. :D Max
 
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