Important notice re: certifying live-steam gas tanks testing.

[G-force1]

There is a VERY minor difference between the can the gas is supplied in, and the tank. The can will only be filled once the tank many times. BUT with NO known problem why try to fix it? It's a load of total claptrap that we are unable even through our elected bodies to do anything about.

And yes this is a rant!

 

[David1226]

Oh dear, you've got me really worried now that they will introduce a stress test for my piece of string, not sure what the breaking strain should be.



David

 

[JimmyB]

Oh dear, you've got me really worried now that they will introduce a stress test for my piece of string, not sure what the breaking strain should be.

View attachment 236820

David

David its not the SWL of the string that you should worry about, but the certificate for the attachment device (knot)

 

[PhilP]

David its not the SWL of the string that you should worry about, but the certificate for the attachment device (knot)

It's OK... He checked with his Granny!

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

1. The codes no longer differentiate for locos under 3 bar/litres, despite the fact public liability insurance does not require any test or certification..

The 16mm Association web page https://www.16mm.org.uk/membership/members-information/insurance/ says "If your boiler is above the 3 bar.litre limit then Volume 1 of the Boiler Test Code 2018 defines the testing regime for the boiler." with a link to Volume 1. Volume 2 is for boilers under 3 bar/litres.

2. The codes do not differentiate between commercially manufactured boilers/tanks from the likes of Roundhouse and those that are homemade by individuals or of unknown origin.. I don't know why this simple distinction cannot be made. Roundhouse for example, has always tested its boilers and gas tanks at manufacture, they just didn't issue the certificate in the past, so many of my locos do not have a paper certificate, but none the less were tested at the time.

Volume 2 Section 6 deals with "home built" boilers, and Section 7 deals with previously uncertified boilers.

My nearest Association boiler tester is 75 miles away. I have no plans to trouble him for my own locos.

 

[tac foley]

.aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the boilers under the limit include EVERY Mamod boiler ever made, and, being made of brass, like Regner's boilers, they will need testing every three years.

and so will every stationary boiler ever built - tens of thousands of them,

Next it will be pop-pop boats........

tac

 

[tac foley]

...and kettles.

tac

 

[Zerogee]

Q: "what do you do if your boiler explodes?"
A: "Buy her some flowers....."

Jon.

 

[G-force1]

.aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the boilers under the limit include EVERY Mamod boiler ever made, and, being made of brass, like Regner's boilers, they will need testing every three years.

and so will every stationary boiler ever built - tens of thousands of them,

Next it will be pop-pop boats........

tac

Yes, and the existing testing regime will be unable to cope, then what?

Not kettles though, they are not sealed containers, though the EU want to mess with them as well, try to make them more efficient. How do you change physics? It will still take 1 K/cal to heat 1 Kg of water by 1 degree.

 

[Zerogee]

Yes, and the existing testing regime will be unable to cope, then what?

Not kettles though, they are not sealed containers, though the EU want to mess with them as well, try to make them more efficient. How do you change physics? It will still take 1 K/cal to heat 1 Kg of water by 1 degree.

"Ye cannae change tha' laws o' physics, Cap'n....."

Jon.

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

.aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the boilers under the limit include EVERY Mamod boiler ever made, and, being made of brass, like Regner's boilers, they will need testing every three years.

That is certainly one interpretation of the new code, but not one to which I subscribe. My understanding is there is no need to test anything below 3 bar/litre if you are a member of the 16mm Association and you are running on your own or on another member's property or at certain events (Peterborough show, for example) that specifically make use of the Association's insurance cover.

If, unlike myself, you exhibit in public or run at an ME club then the event organiser can ask you to comply with all and any regulations of their own making that they see fit to impose: All steam locos must be painted red, all drivers must wear a silly hat, etc. Comply or walk away are the only choices in that situation.

I own a loco with a brass boiler (Roundhouse Dylan) and I will not be getting it tested.

And, of course, anybody who doesn't happen to be a member of any of these august organisations can buy a model steam loco and do whatever they like with it without the need for any testing at all.

 

[G-force1]

That is certainly one interpretation of the new code, but not one to which I subscribe. My understanding is there is no need to test anything below 3 bar/litre if you are a member of the 16mm Association and you are running on your own or on another member's property or at certain events (Peterborough show, for example) that specifically make use of the Association's insurance cover.
. . . . . . .

And, of course, anybody who doesn't happen to be a member of any of these august organisations can buy a model steam loco and do whatever they like with it without the need for any testing at all.

.

Except at any of the above of course.

My M.E.S. already takes the view that everything must be tested, hence I don't bother to run there, and am certainly not likely to, if they want to do gas tanks as well. I have a total of 9 boilers and 4 gas tanks (5 coal fired) that could be tested, even that many, is too many to keep up with, with what I feel is the necessary prep required beforehand.

I also take issue with the need to remove the gas tank for testing as that means stripping a loco that may never have been apart and I've yet to see one that looks as good after that has happened. There are always marks on bolt heads and other bits.

 

[My45G]

.

Except at any of the above of course.

My M.E.S. already takes the view that everything must be tested, hence I don't bother to run there, and am certainly not likely to, if they want to do gas tanks as well. I have a total of 9 boilers and 4 gas tanks (5 coal fired) that could be tested, even that many, is too many to keep up with, with what I feel is the necessary prep required beforehand.

I also take issue with the need to remove the gas tank for testing as that means stripping a loco that may never have been apart and I've yet to see one that looks as good after that has happened. There are always marks on bolt heads and other bits.

Both gas tank and boiler will need to be removed from the loco as each needs to be indelibly marked with some kind of identifying number. You can't certify the loco. New locos bought recently have this, the problem is with older locos and some of mine are 20 years old.

 

[My45G]

The 16mm Association web page https://www.16mm.org.uk/membership/members-information/insurance/ says "If your boiler is above the 3 bar.litre limit then Volume 1 of the Boiler Test Code 2018 defines the testing regime for the boiler." with a link to Volume 1. Volume 2 is for boilers under 3 bar/litres.


Volume 2 Section 6 deals with "home built" boilers, and Section 7 deals with previously uncertified boilers.

My nearest Association boiler tester is 75 miles away. I have no plans to trouble him for my own locos.

Agreed, but the point I was trying to make was that Roundhouse tested the boiler at manufacture, but didn't issue a certificate. As I now can't produce a certificate I have to re-test. It should be sufficient to say I have an invoice from Roundhouse for the purchase and therefore by default the boiler has been tested.

 

[My45G]

.

Except at any of the above of course.

My M.E.S. already takes the view that everything must be tested, hence I don't bother to run there, and am certainly not likely to, if they want to do gas tanks as well. I have a total of 9 boilers and 4 gas tanks (5 coal fired) that could be tested, even that many, is too many to keep up with, with what I feel is the necessary prep required beforehand.

I also take issue with the need to remove the gas tank for testing as that means stripping a loco that may never have been apart and I've yet to see one that looks as good after that has happened. There are always marks on bolt heads and other bits.

As a result, I have withdrawn my exhibition layout from all future model railway shows for the forseeable future.

 

[G-force1]

As a result, I have withdrawn my exhibition layout from all future model railway shows for the forseeable future.

This is just the start of something much bigger that hopefully will come back and bite a few people mightier than ourselves. The tail has for too long been wagging the dog!

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

New locos bought recently have this...

I had a new this year loco from a well-known and respected builder on my bench until a few days ago. The boiler needed a repair, testing and re-certification for the owner's peace of mind - nothing more. It had no identifying mark.

As I now can't produce a certificate I have to re-test.

My question to you is then: Who wants to see the certificate? And why?

This is just the start of something much bigger that hopefully will come back and bite a few people mightier than ourselves. The tail has for too long been wagging the dog!

You make it sound as though a clandestine police force is going to break in to your home and take your engines away. There is nobody policing this, other than event/ME organisers who can, frankly, ask you to do anything they like, including saying that any existing certificate is invalid and only their own tester can issue one. At which point I would wish them well and walk away.

Bear in mind too that WHO issues the certificate and WHAT equipment they use also has a bearing. A good friend who has been building boilers for 30 years tests and certifies his own boilers, but because he is not a 16mm Association tester using Association equipment his certificate does not meet the needs of the Association's insurance company. Instead, they would prefer a certificate from somebody who may or may not have any experience in testing boilers, provided somebody has said they are OK to do the testing and they have an Association rig.

I feel that mountains out of mole hills are being built here on this forum.

 

[PhilP]

This kettle makes a hell of a racket when the safety goes...
Is there any way to stop it? AND do I have to stop drinking hot drinks?
(I am a member of both the GSS and 16mm Society)


Please advise..

 

[My45G]

I had a new this year loco from a well-known and respected builder on my bench until a few days ago. The boiler needed a repair, testing and re-certification for the owner's peace of mind - nothing more. It had no identifying mark.

My question to you is then: Who wants to see the certificate? And why?

You make it sound as though a clandestine police force is going to break in to your home and take your engines away. There is nobody policing this, other than event/ME organisers who can, frankly, ask you to do anything they like, including saying that any existing certificate is invalid and only their own tester can issue one. At which point I would wish them well and walk away.

Bear in mind too that WHO issues the certificate and WHAT equipment they use also has a bearing. A good friend who has been building boilers for 30 years tests and certifies his own boilers, but because he is not a 16mm Association tester using Association equipment his certificate does not meet the needs of the Association's insurance company. Instead, they would prefer a certificate from somebody who may or may not have any experience in testing boilers, provided somebody has said they are OK to do the testing and they have an Association rig.

I feel that mountains out of mole hills are being built here on this forum.

Any exhibition manager that uses the guidelines of the 16mm association. I have been asked to show certificates before I could run so I declined the invitation. But as said before, that's their perogative.

 

[G-force1]

I had a new this year loco from a well-known and respected builder on my bench until a few days ago. The boiler needed a repair, testing and re-certification for the owner's peace of mind - nothing more. It had no identifying mark.

My question to you is then: Who wants to see the certificate? And why?

You make it sound as though a clandestine police force is going to break in to your home and take your engines away. There is nobody policing this, other than event/ME organisers who can, frankly, ask you to do anything they like, including saying that any existing certificate is invalid and only their own tester can issue one. At which point I would wish them well and walk away.

Bear in mind too that WHO issues the certificate and WHAT equipment they use also has a bearing. A good friend who has been building boilers for 30 years tests and certifies his own boilers, but because he is not a 16mm Association tester using Association equipment his certificate does not meet the needs of the Association's insurance company. Instead, they would prefer a certificate from somebody who may or may not have any experience in testing boilers, provided somebody has said they are OK to do the testing and they have an Association rig.

I feel that mountains out of mole hills are being built here on this forum.

Tony you read that wrongly mate. Not like that at all. If we all stopped showing, and running at public events a lot of people would suffer financially. These folks would then have something to bitch about with more power than we can wield.

We ran boilers for around 90 years before it was suddenly decreed that we were no longer able to police ourselves. There had been no fatalities, no serious injuries, no boiler explosions, nothing.