how to access motor on Bachman Spectrum 4-4-0 American (circa 2000)

[rpiboy01]

Hi all,

Yes, I'm jumping into forums with two feet as I've exhausted the internet in terms of search terms and now need to engage human capital!

Looking for guidance on how to take apart the above mentioned loco to get access to the wire connections to the track pick-up and motor. The loco I have (came to me by inheiritance) has R/C w/battery installed. I beleive the installer of the R/C / Battery System clipped the power feeds from the trucks, I'd like to see if I could re-establish.

I also beleive from what I've read online that the tender can in theory support power pick-up, but I've found no documentation on best means to add power pick-up to the tender.

Found lots of material on the 4-6-0s, but barely anything for the 4-4-0s. Are they a similiar enough design that I could use reference material for the 4-6-0 and apply it to the 4-4-0?

Thanks for reading!

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yes, it does pick up from the tender - I have one, but can't remember how it's done - I'll have a look out in the shed once I have donned me thermals. I think it relies on copper pickups running on the wheel journals, so if the copper pickups are still there, the wiring is pretty straightforward, and there's a socket in the loco firebox.

The tender is identical to the 2-6-0 and you can see the rather unhelpful Bachmann diagrams here https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/LS2-6-0_SOUNDREADY_Tender.pdf


As regards taking the loco apart, I think ...... the base plate comes of fairly easily, but may not help. The one I bought was convinced to buy by a well-known forumite and good friend had been through the mill big time, and was sold to me as a non-runner. Hence, I dismantled the loco completely.

It's all pretty straightforward except the bit where you need to take the wheels off the axles. there's a plastic disc in the wheel centre. Remove that, and you can get at the nuts that hold the wheel to the axle but take care to note where the plastic washers go.

Mine had two short circuits, once I had re-attached the motor lead that had probably been cut off in desperation.

First short was one of the axles where the plastic washer had been replaced with a metal one and the second was that the loco pick-up wiring was reversed from the tender pick-up wiring.

I don't think Mike knew where he'd got the loco, but the previous owner should have been a candidate for the Darwin awards.

 

[rpiboy01]

Mine had two short circuits, once I had re-attached the motor lead that had probably been cut off in desperation.

This loco functions, feeding power to the battery terminal.

As regards taking the loco apart, I think ...... the base plate comes of fairly easily, but may not help. The one I bought was convinced to buy by a well-known forumite and good friend had been through the mill big time, and was sold to me as a non-runner. Hence, I dismantled the loco completely.

I did remove the screws from the base plate under the drivers, however it did not want to seem to come off, seemed caught on something.

What about acccess to the primary PCB? Bachman wiring diagrams seem to suggest everything routes through the PCB.

I have not seen any evidence of pick-up on my tender. No wire leads from the trucks and no visible wipers or the like. The trucks have chains that go from the truck to the tender body, and beyond applying signifcant mechanical force to the pins the chains are attached to, I see no obvious method to actually fully remove the trucks from the tender.

 

[Rhinochugger]

This loco functions, feeding power to the battery terminal.


I did remove the screws from the base plate under the drivers, however it did not want to seem to come off, seemed caught on something.

What about acccess to the primary PCB? Bachman wiring diagrams seem to suggest everything routes through the PCB.

I have not seen any evidence of pick-up on my tender. No wire leads from the trucks and no visible wipers or the like. The trucks have chains that go from the truck to the tender body, and beyond applying signifcant mechanical force to the pins the chains are attached to, I see no obvious method to actually fully remove the trucks from the tender.

Right, the primary PCB is in the boiler - which I think is probably why I ended up dismantling the engine. It's not as bad as it sounds. I think taking the wheels off has got to be the next step,

The body removal requires the cab to be taken off first.

Just going out to da shed - I may be some time ...............

 

[Rhinochugger]

OK, as you can see in the photo below, I lied about the wires and leads. There are two sets of leads that come out of the loco - a 4-gang and a 2-gang and they plug into sockets on the underside of the tender. I think the 2-gang is for the tender pickups.

The bogies come of with the usual Bachmann centre pivot screw, and the copper wiper pick-ups can be seen. If you don't have these, you could probably fettle some from copper strip.

 

[rpiboy01]

The tender is identical to the 2-6-0 and you can see the rather unhelpful Bachmann diagrams here https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/LS2-6-0_SOUNDREADY_Tender.pdf

Interesting, very similiar to what I have, but also not quite the same. For example the coupler on mine has been mounted to the truck, but this also appears to have been an after-market modification, possibly to change the height...? Also, if there was a factory PCB in the tender, it's gone now, and I think the speaker is aftermarket too to accomdate the battery, Sountraxx Sierra, Locolinc boards and Locolinc attenna.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Bachmann estore has the entire tender truck for sale as a spare

4-4-0 Locomotive : Bachmann Trains Online Store!

Bachmann Trains Online Store! : 4-4-0 Locomotive - Gift Shop Catalogs HO Parts Large Scale Parts N Parts On30 Parts General Parts & Supplies O Scale - Williams Track DCC Sound Boards Locomotive / Tender Speakers All Scale Kit Bashing ecommerce, open source, shop, online shopping, store

estore.bachmanntrains.com

 

[Rhinochugger]

? Also, if there was a factory PCB in the tender,

Also available from the estore - jump in quick.

 

[rpiboy01]

OK, as you can see in the photo below, I lied about the wires and leads. There are two sets of leads that come out of the loco - a 4-gang and a 2-gang and they plug into sockets on the underside of the tender. I think the 2-gang is for the tender pickups.

The bogies come of with the usual Bachmann centre pivot screw, and the copper wiper pick-ups can be seen. If you don't have these, you could probably fettle some from copper strip.

Yes. the wipers are gone! Good to see how they were installed though! The harness is intersting, per the wiring diagram I did find, the 4 pin is for track power, linking loco & tender and then two wires were "for speaker" but I'm not sure in what capcity, since the speaker was/is in the tender. Somewhere I saw/read the two pin was for the "chuff" coming off the rear driver wheels and only a single pin was used. In my install, I beleive they're using the 4 pin to send power to the motor, and then I beleive they're using the other two pins to power the lights on the engine. Hence the interest in getting the engine apart so I can see what they did wiring wise in there to re-direct the power.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

From your post, it's not clear you downloaded the wiring diagram:

https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/LS4-4-0DCWIRING.pdf

The wiring on the 4 pin connector is shown. The 2 pin connector is shown, but not it's wiring, might have been reserved for chuff signal. (to send to tender if sound unit is there)

a little information on my site: may be helpful, but this page is not fully developed:

4-4-0 American

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yes. the wipers are gone! Good to see how they were installed though! The harness is intersting, per the wiring diagram I did find, the 4 pin is for track power, linking loco & tender and then two wires were "for speaker" but I'm not sure in what capcity, since the speaker was/is in the tender. Somewhere I saw/read the two pin was for the "chuff" coming off the rear driver wheels and only a single pin was used. In my install, I beleive they're using the 4 pin to send power to the motor, and then I beleive they're using the other two pins to power the lights on the engine. Hence the interest in getting the engine apart so I can see what they did wiring wise in there to re-direct the power.

No, the chuff is on the driving axle on these locos - the later (2017) version of the 2-6-0 may have the later chuff sensor (similar to the K27 and C-19) but the 4-4-0s were all the early version with a similar chuff sensor to the famous 4-6-0 Bug Mauler.

The original speaker is OK ish, but whatever speaker you use, if enclose it (using the lid from a spray can or similar) you will get vastly improved sound. If you stick with the Bachmann sound card, then use the George Schreyer modifications which are dead cheap, but it may be better to use a more upmarket sound card.

Big Haulers Tips

 

[Rhinochugger]

The drive train is adequate, but not enormously robust, but if you stick with fairly short consists, the loco makes a good addition to the fleet - not necessarily this short thought

 

[rpiboy01]

a little information on my site: may be helpful, but this page is not fully developed:

4-4-0 American

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

Ah hah! Started watching the embedded video. The bottom cover does not just "lift off" like I witnessed in your video. It seems to be caugt on something, perhaps I should just apply more force, but I always get nervous about applying force, since is typically the moment when something breaks!

Any thoughts?

 

[Southwestforests]

perhaps I should just apply more force, but I always get nervous about applying force, since is typically the moment when something breaks!

Any thoughts?

My thought is to refrain from applying more force at this time. Do more investigation, wait for more input.
And since I opted to not get a 4-4-0 after looking at them in 2009/2010 that's about the extent of thought I can have at this time.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Ah hah! Started watching the embedded video. The bottom cover does not just "lift off" like I witnessed in your video. It seems to be caugt on something, perhaps I should just apply more force, but I always get nervous about applying force, since is typically the moment when something breaks!

Any thoughts?

The only thought I have on that video is that I don't like using any form of power tool on models this small - I know the guy was only undoing things, but .....

I think I'd be tempted to get the wheels off so that you can peer in and try to see what is catching - it may be nothing important, or it may be one of the wires that has been disabled / cut off.

I don't think it could be anything major of the mechanical variety.

 

[rpiboy01]

I don't think it could be anything major of the mechanical variety.

I tend to agree since I've confirmed the loco functions. I'd really like to get a closer look at the main PCB in the boiler too, but the leads seem to be too short to get it to slide out. It seems like the headlight should detach from the boiler too, but some gentle prying as not managed to get it to release.

 

[Rhinochugger]

I tend to agree since I've confirmed the loco functions. I'd really like to get a closer look at the main PCB in the boiler too, but the leads seem to be too short to get it to slide out. It seems like the headlight should detach from the boiler too, but some gentle prying as not managed to get it to release.

I think you're in a similar place to where I was - so take the bull by the horns and dismantle the loco completely. You'll then be able to see the PCBs quite easily, and steadily put things back together the way you want them.

It's not as difficult as it sounds - the 4-4-0 is one of the easier Bachmann locos to take apart ........................... and re-assemble

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I did not review the video closely, it was from a friend. On the bachman's I have worked on, often a pcb has been stuffed in the tender and then the wires soldered, and too short to pull the pcb out unless I unsolder or cut the wires.

Really p**sed me off...

Greg

 

[rpiboy01]

Hi all,

Here is a video of the issues I'm running into attempting to pull this beasty apart!

 

[Southwestforests]

Man, that is a bunch of frustration.
If only Bachmann saw fit to have at least that expolded parts diagram in the service references section of their website, but, nope, just a couple of small wiring things is all they offer.