How do I program Massoth S decoder connected via SUSI with Massoth Service Tool

[idlemarvel]

I am trying to change the sound settings on a Massoth S decoder post initial installation. It is connected to a Massoth XL motor decoder with a SUSI cable, rather than being connected directly to track power. It works fine but I want to change some of the sound / function key mappings. I have the Massoth Service Tool (v3.5) set up to do CV updates on a piece of programming track. This works fine for my other locos which have a Massoth S connected to track power, but not when I try and program the Massoth S connected via SUSI.

I seem to have two problems. One is that with the Massoth S connected to the Massoth XL via SUSI cable, the Massoth Service Tool can no longer read CV settings off the Massoth XL decoder (errors and incorrect values). I can read these correctly with my Lenz command station handset in programming mode. The second is that the templates for "Massoth S Decoder via SUSI >3.5" or "Massoth S via SUSI" are both trying to read CVs in the range 940-979, whereas the latest manual (2018.07) refers to CVs in the range 900-979. So for example, the master volume setting is CV 902 according to the manual, but the service tool says it is CV 942. I changed CV 902 using Programming-on-Main and that did change the volume, so I am inclined to believe the manual. I have checked for Massoth Service Tool updates and my setup is up-to-date. I have also tried using the "non-SUSI" templates for Massoth S decoder but that doesn't help either, it just reads values of 0 for all the settings.

So that's my situation. Couple of questions:
1 - Has anyone any experience of successfully reading/writing CVs to a SUSI connected Massoth S decoder?
2 - Have I misunderstood the meaning of "Massoth S via SUSI", does it mean I have to connect the Massoth S decoder via SUSI cable directly to the Massoth Service Tool?

I haven't asked Massoth support yet, I wanted to check I was barking up the right tree first! Thanks for any insight, Dave.

 

[muns]

Hi Dave, Manually select the "eMotion S via SUSI >v3.5" template. You can then set the relevant CVs in the SUSI bus range. The XL will then pass the read/set commands over the bus to the S decoder.

 

[muns]

Hi Dave, re read your original post and I just checked the template against the CV list in the configuration manual for v4.0 and they do not reconcile!

I have managed to find an older configuration guide for the S and the SUSI CVs do match the template so I must conclude that the template is out of date.

 

[idlemarvel]

Hi Dave, Manually select the "eMotion S via SUSI >v3.5" template. You can then set the relevant CVs in the SUSI bus range. The XL will then pass the read/set commands over the bus to the S decoder.

Thanks Mark. From your answer I deduce what I am trying to do is correct, pass the CV read/set commands to the S decoder via the SUSI cable to/from the XL decoder. However I have tried the "manual" approach, selecting the aforementioned template and trying to read but I get nothing but errors or incorrect readings (like manufacturer id 243 not 123 etc). Also doesn't explain why I can't read the XL decoder CVs when the SUSI cable is plugged in. But as you agree the template is wrong I will take this up with Massoth.

 

[Benco]

Dave, below is the last paragraph of a reply I got yesterday from Frank Moeller at Massoth hotline. My query regarding problems with an S-PluG was sent a couple of weeks ago but not answered until yesterday as Frank was on vacation.
' Which version is your MST? I don't see a correct template for the MST at all. Will create one and then send it to you in advance. You need the CV900-CV1023. But unfortunately it will take a few days'.

Maybe this will solve our problems.
Ben

 

[idlemarvel]

Dave, below is the last paragraph of a reply I got yesterday from Frank Moeller at Massoth hotline. My query regarding problems with an S-PluG was sent a couple of weeks ago but not answered until yesterday as Frank was on vacation.
' Which version is your MST? I don't see a correct template for the MST at all. Will create one and then send it to you in advance. You need the CV900-CV1023. But unfortunately it will take a few days'.

Maybe this will solve our problems.
Ben

Thanks Ben, please let me know if you are notified about an updated template. I'm not convinced that will solve my problem completely but it's a necessary start. I have a workaround (open up the loco) but that kind of defeats the objective.

 

[Benco]

I only realised the significance of that paragraph after reading your post. I'd only managed to get some sounds out of mine the day before, with Mike's (Muns) help, and was unsuccessfully trying modifications.
Ben

 

[muns]

I only realised the significance of that paragraph after reading your post. I'd only managed to get some sounds out of mine the day before, with Mike's (Muns) help, and was unsuccessfully trying modifications.
Ben

I am getting an identity complex ....Am I Mike, or am IMark..????


Mark

 

[Benco]

Apologies again, Mark.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I thought you were a Windows man, so iMark would be inappropriate?

 

[muns]

Apologies again, Mark.

An apology was not needed as offence was taken. I actually quite good at responding to a lot of different names especially if they originate from SHMBO.

 

[idlemarvel]

I assume you meant no offence was taken, Mark!

To return to the subject, I have had a quick response from Massoth (Frank Nöller), in fact two responses, both helpful.

In summary Massoth said they are working on a new template (as they mentioned to you Ben) and will test out programming via SUSI cable connection. In the meantime they suggested a workaround for me to connect both XL and S decoders to track power and then use the software programming lock (CV15+CV16). You then use CV15 to select the appropriate decoder where CV15=131 for the XL or CV15=145 for the S.

Normally I do install Massoth S decoders direct to track power, with a hardware switch to isolate the decoders for programming purposes, but that does mean you have to make sure the driving characteristics (speeds and acceleration) are the same for both decoders, otherwise the sounds will not match the loco speed. Using the SUSI cable should make things easier, and Massoth do say in their documentation it is the optimum way to connect the two decoders.

I will report back when I hear more from Massoth support.

 

[Benco]

I see I also got Frank's name wrong as well. Maybe it's tue what a friend told me last week; I only need to remember the names of three shops- Specsavers, Boots and Greggs as from now on my life will be a continuous round of specs, drugs, and sausage rolls.

 

[muns]

I assume you meant no offence was taken, Mark!

Indeed I did. I must remember to read my posts before I press the post button...it's been one of those days.

 

[Benco]

I sent Frank a reminder on Monday and got this reply this morning:-
'can't promise you if I can do it by next week. Maybe I'll be able to check it out on Monday. There is a holiday and the weather should not be so special.'

So, maybe we should hope for rain?
Ben

 

[The Shed]

Perhaps should help old Frank out and send him the Master Copy of mine!

 

[idlemarvel]

If you are prepared to share your labours I would be very grateful.

 

[The Shed]

Master copy of decoder template emailed to Frank for comment..........

 

[The Shed]

Presently working on designing a new decoder template for the version 4.2 S Decoder.

 

[The Shed]

To recap... yes control via SUSI does work, both in Function Key operation and CV programming using the CV's allocated to the SUSI banks of CV's, tested and verified using the PIKO DCC System and the Massoth Programmer, and both templates work as they should.

Below in the picture, M Decoder to S Decoder via SUSI cable, quite why an XL Decoder has so much trouble, will have to refer that one to Massoth for an answer.