Help With LGB 65000 Sound Unit Please

Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
13,693
Pennsylvania, USA
It might be a little 'off' and perhaps too far away? - Black-bit in-line with magnet, and perhaps a little less gap?

We any also be a a point where you need a local, tame DCC user?? - I fear a CV will need changing.. Just need to find the 'damn-paperwork'..

..

..

T'would appear to be CV 64, but the paperwork, so far, is less than helpful.. :(

Adjusted the sensor to the point of a minuscule separation between it and the magnet. Still no luck.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,184
Tamworth, Staffs.
My searches so-far have found four threads on the Forum, discussing these units, and tweaking the 'chuff'.. But no suggestions of values to try in CV 64!

The nearest was an Offer from Neil, back in 2013 (I think) to dig a loco out and read the values..

I have a basic sound unit here. - Came in a sound-van though.
I will try to make some space, and time, to have a fiddle..

PhilP.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,543
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Have had a look at my 65000 manual, from what I see CV64 says that you can synchronies the wheel sensor 65010 see instructions for that (do not have one to refer to). Or you can adjust for different wheel diameters, now I put one of these in a Corpet or two many years ago. CV64 has a default value of 82 which if I remember correctly without a sensor gave 2 chuffs per revolution. Not good when you need 4, so not entirely sure what we adjusted it to but perhaps it may have been 164 double the default value. I know that we did get 4 beats at a sensible slow Corpet Speed. So possible without a wheel sensor, but you need to program the 65000 separetely which is why I have not been able to check what mine is set to as it would mean pulling poor old Corpet apart. I do remember there was lots of fiddling about with the CV64 till we were happy. Then we put the Corpet back together.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,184
Tamworth, Staffs.
The manual is woefully inadequate in detail for this CV. - Possibly, because LGB never released '65010' , as far as I can see? - I am unable to find it as an item, or a manual for it..

The Massoth sensor manual has references for Massoth decoders (obviously!) but nothing for use with an LGB unit..

**I wonder if anyone out there has a LGB sound equipped loco, with a sensor?** - If so, could they read CV64's value, and note how many 'chuffs' per revolution they get, please?? :nod::nod::)
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,676
N Somerset
From the LGB programming software CV 64 is normally set to 82 or 84 depending on number of chuffs. Multiplied by a constant if the wheel diameter is different from the loco.
The other variable CVs are 58, Start voltage for Analogue & 59 for max analogue voltage. I can't read out the actual CVs without taking the loco to pieces to disconnect the decoder.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,184
Tamworth, Staffs.
From the LGB programming software CV 64 is normally set to 82 or 84 depending on number of chuffs. Multiplied by a constant if the wheel diameter is different from the loco.
The other variable CVs are 58, Start voltage for Analogue & 59 for max analogue voltage. I can't read out the actual CVs without taking the loco to pieces to disconnect the decoder.
Thank' s Mike, gives us somewhere to start from.
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,676
N Somerset
My Nikki & Frank has one of these in the tender. Runs fine in MTS & analogue. 4 chuffs to the rev with an LGB sensor. The only thing I do remember was it wouldn't work properly until I ran it & the sound unit detected it had a sensor. CVs 58 & 59 are irrelevant once you fit a sensor. Mine has a storage capacitor (home made) to keep it going on analogue.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,184
Tamworth, Staffs.
My Nikki & Frank has one of these in the tender. Runs fine in MTS & analogue. 4 chuffs to the rev with an LGB sensor. The only thing I do remember was it wouldn't work properly until I ran it & the sound unit detected it had a sensor. CVs 58 & 59 are irrelevant once you fit a sensor. Mine has a storage capacitor (home made) to keep it going on analogue.
You need 5-6 Volts before the electronics wakes-up.. - And to get some charge in the storage capacitor(s).
 
The Shed

The Shed

Registered
If anyone has easy access to this item, eMOTION Pulse Generator 8242030, would they be kind enough to read off, and post the part number of the actual Hall Sensor used, mainly for my own notes and gaining further info on the product itself.

Many thanks....
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,676
N Somerset
You need 5-6 Volts before the electronics wakes-up.. - And to get some charge in the storage capacitor(s).
Regardless of the capacitors it still needs a few pulses from the sensor to tell it there is a sensor fitted. An LGB man told me that.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Tried that. I think the sound unit must be brain dead.....:giggle:
Dan - I install Massoth and ESU DCC Sound Decoders for customer's LGB locomotives, and I installed a LGB 65001 American Steam Sound Module into a customer's LGB Mogul's Tender last month for a customer's DCC layout. But I've never used a Hall Sensor in one, so no experience to share with you on that. I've always used the electronic chuff and adjusted the starting voltage and other elements, if necessary, using the CVs listed in the Owner's Manual. I see that CV64 is used for Synchronizing a wheel sensor (see Fig. 2) (9..255) [82] If the wheel sensor is not installed on a drive axle, you can adjust for different wheel diameters. You also can program the number of magnets.

Since you don't have a DCC system to adjust the CVs, perhaps you can take your unit to someone who does have a DCC system. If there's a Large Scale Club in your PA area, someone there probably has a DCC system that could assist you. Alternatively, you don't need a DCC system if you can find someone who has a Massoth DiMax PC Interface Module that connects by USB to a PC, you can program the CV settings for all Massoth and LGB DCC devices such as the LGB Sound Module you have. You just power the device with at least a 2 amps DC power and then use the screen on your PC to read and write CVs. You can also do a factory reset on the LGB Sound Module if necessary using the PC Module.

I'm an online LGB and Massoth retailer but I'm out of stock right now on the LGB Sound Modules, otherwise I'd test a Hall Senor on one for you. Feel free to email me directly if I can be of any assistance: OldDominionRailways@gmail.com

Thomas White
 
Last edited:
Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
13,693
Pennsylvania, USA
Dan - I install Massoth and ESU DCC Sound Decoders for customer's LGB locomotives, and I installed a LGB 65001 American Steam Sound Module into a customer's LGB Mogul's Tender last month for a customer's DCC layout. But I've never used a Hall Sensor in one, so no experience to share with you on that. I've always used the electronic chuff and adjusted the starting voltage and other elements, if necessary, using the CVs listed in the Owner's Manual. I see that CV64 is used for Synchronizing a wheel sensor (see Fig. 2) (9..255) [82] If the wheel sensor is not installed on a drive axle, you can adjust for different wheel diameters. You also can program the number of magnets.

Since you don't have a DCC system to adjust the CVs, perhaps you can take your unit to someone who does have a DCC system. If there's a Large Scale Club in your PA area, someone there probably has a DCC system that could assist you. Alternatively, you don't need a DCC system if you can find someone who has a Massoth DiMax PC Interface Module that connects by USB to a PC, you can program the CV settings for all Massoth and LGB DCC devices such as the LGB Sound Module you have. You just power the device with at least a 2 amps DC power and then use the screen on your PC to read and write CVs. You can also do a factory reset on the LGB Sound Module if necessary using the PC Module.

I'm an online LGB and Massoth retailer but I'm out of stock right now on the LGB Sound Modules, otherwise I'd test a Hall Senor on one for you. Feel free to email me directly if I can be of any assistance: OldDominionRailways@gmail.com

Thomas White

Thank you for that information, Thomas. After a lengthy conversation with Muhammad of All About LGB, I have decided to forgo any further investigation and experimentation with an LGB sound module.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Thank you for that information, Thomas. After a lengthy conversation with Muhammad of All About LGB, I have decided to forgo any further investigation and experimentation with an LGB sound module.
Madman - Well, sorry to hear that. I know Mohamed, and we sometimes collaborate on Massoth DCC decoder issues. So, I'm curious why he says give up using the LGB Sound Module. As I indicated, I've sold many of the units to customers on eBay or through my Website, and have advised users on installation issues. If you bought your unit brand new, then LGB/Marklin provides for a two year warranty if it's actually defective. If you want to ship to me your LGB Sound Module I'll test it for you at no cost on my Massoth DCC system, and can adjust the CVs, if needed. I'll let you know if the chuff feature is operational or not, and if it's defective, you can then process a warranty request back to LGB. You can ship your LGB Sound Module to me inexpensively using either USPS First Class Package or USPS Priority Mail. I've also solved Massoth decoder programming issues for frustrated users. If you're interested, email me and I'll provide my shipping address to Old Dominion Railways - LGB Trains.
Thomas White
Email: OldDominionRailways@gmail.com
Website: LGB Trains | Old Dominion Railways | Repairs & DCC Installs | United States
 
Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
13,693
Pennsylvania, USA
Madman - Well, sorry to hear that. I know Mohamed, and we sometimes collaborate on Massoth DCC decoder issues. So, I'm curious why he says give up using the LGB Sound Module. As I indicated, I've sold many of the units to customers on eBay or through my Website, and have advised users on installation issues. If you bought your unit brand new, then LGB/Marklin provides for a two year warranty if it's actually defective. If you want to ship to me your LGB Sound Module I'll test it for you at no cost on my Massoth DCC system, and can adjust the CVs, if needed. I'll let you know if the chuff feature is operational or not, and if it's defective, you can then process a warranty request back to LGB. You can ship your LGB Sound Module to me inexpensively using either USPS First Class Package or USPS Priority Mail. I've also solved Massoth decoder programming issues for frustrated users. If you're interested, email me and I'll provide my shipping address to Old Dominion Railways - LGB Trains.
Thomas White
Email: OldDominionRailways@gmail.com
Website: LGB Trains | Old Dominion Railways | Repairs & DCC Installs | United States

You may have misunderstood. Mohamed didn't specifically tell me to give up. While speaking with him by phone, we both concluded that, given my application, it may not be worth the time, $$$$$ and effort to continue. I told him that the 65000 was basically an experiment that I chose to undertake along with the eMotion detector, and that I knew from the start that it might not work.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
You may have misunderstood. Mohamed didn't specifically tell me to give up. While speaking with him by phone, we both concluded that, given my application, it may not be worth the time, $$$$$ and effort to continue. I told him that the 65000 was basically an experiment that I chose to undertake along with the eMotion detector, and that I knew from the start that it might not work.
Okay, understand.

But when I receive my re-order of LGB American Steam Sound Modules, I'm going to test one using a Massoth Hall Sensor, just to confirm it works or not. Since I'm an LGB dealer and LGB Authorized Service Center, I need to know this for dealing with customers, etc.

Attached are some photos of the last installation of an LGB Sound Module I did for a customer. He had already bought the Module and furnished it to me, and he also wanted his Mogul converted to DCC by installing a Massoth XL DCC/DC Driving/Power Decoder. Again, I didn't use a Hall Sensor, just tweeked the chuff sounds with the Mogul's wheel revolutions.
 

Attachments

Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
13,693
Pennsylvania, USA
Okay, understand.

But when I receive my re-order of LGB American Steam Sound Modules, I'm going to test one using a Massoth Hall Sensor, just to confirm it works or not. Since I'm an LGB dealer and LGB Authorized Service Center, I need to know this for dealing with customers, etc.

Attached are some photos of the last installation of an LGB Sound Module I did for a customer. He had already bought the Module and furnished it to me, and he also wanted his Mogul converted to DCC by installing a Massoth XL DCC/DC Driving/Power Decoder. Again, I didn't use a Hall Sensor, just tweeked the chuff sounds with the Mogul's wheel revolutions.
So it appears you placed the sound module in the tender. That's similar to what I was doing by placing the sound module and the Hall Sensor in a trailing car that also housed the G Scale Graphics Railboss Plus and battery. I placed the hall sensor near an axle which I had installed the included magnet on. Further back in this thread you will find photos of the installation. I would like to know your results when you do the experiment.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
So it appears you placed the sound module in the tender. That's similar to what I was doing by placing the sound module and the Hall Sensor in a trailing car that also housed the G Scale Graphics Railboss Plus and battery. I placed the hall sensor near an axle which I had installed the included magnet on. Further back in this thread you will find photos of the installation. I would like to know your results when you do the experiment.
Hi Again! Yes, I placed the sound board into the customer's Mogul tender but I used the LGB Sound Module's electronic chuff generator, not a Hall Sensor, and then adjusted the starting voltage of both the Mogul's XL DCC Driving Decoder I installed, and the starting voltage of the LGB Sound Module, to get the chuff's in sync with the Mogul's wheel revolutions.

I just received my resupply of LGB Amercian Steam Sound Modules and just completed a test of connecting a Hall Sensor to the LGB Sound Module.......works fine. But you first must change the factory-default Pulse Generator setting CV195 = 0 (electronic chuff) to 1 - 4. I first tried CV195 = 1 and the chuffs were distorted. I then tried CV195 = 4 and it works great. I don't know what Mohamed advised you, but the LGB Sound Module Hall Sensor feature works if you use an appropriate Hall Sensor. If you created your own instead of using the Massoth Hall Sensor Kit, then maybe that's the issue. The Massoth Hall Sensors need 5 - 6 volts from the sound board to work. If you were using just a two wire reed switch with magnets, the LGB Sound Module probably won't accept that input.......but I'm not positive.

I looked at the photos you posted and see that you did install a Hall Sensor which should work if you make the CV195 = 4 adjustment for using a Hall Sensor instead of the electronic chuff. But if it still doesn't work after making the CV change, then it's possible that you have the wires reversed on your connector. See the wiring configuration for the connector shown in the Massoth Hall Sensor Installation Manual below. The +U is the voltage wire. You may have to resolder your connector's wires. Good luck..... and please let us know if you get the LGB Sound Module to generate chuffs with your Hall Sensor.
Massoth Hall Sensor Connector Configuration.jpg
 
Last edited: