help me trouble shoot a LGB 2033 problem please

[stevedenver]

just purchased a 2033-the little diesel, orange, pantograph, flat bed, Schoema style cab  

this is about 1988 era-d gear box-sandwhich style-screw on wheels to axles
no gold sticker -all analog-round style connector holes for passenger coach lights

it is obvious the box was exposed to water-the loco is virtually unrun based on wheel and skate  wear

also this loco may likely have LGB EAV-that is it has a starting voltage of about 9-10 volts-that is so the lights and roof flashers will light, but the loco will sit (dont know if this is relevant)

ok-
first when it arrived -roof flashers operate in either polarity (forward or reverse on the throttle)
however
loco only runs single direction-headlight works in running direction as do flashers-no difference between hooking up the track connection or using the pantograph to power it-same issue

in other direction (which is the direction of the flatbed and large headlamp facing front) flashers on roof flash BUT no headlight and no motor

took it apart to look for obvious issues, broken solder, separated electrical components from the board, jiggled the track neutral overhead selector slide 

lubed the motor brushes (unrelated-just due to some fluorescing on the motor case which indicated some water moisture corrosion ) lubed the worms 

tested the motor directly using the motor box pins -direct to the motor -all's well 

i surmise there is an issue with the board-possibly a diode-as the large headlight wont light and the motor doesn't run 

in examining all the electrical parts on both boards-front and rear-as well as the roof light stuff-nothing obvious-all wires connected-all parts well into the board-no corrosion-nothing looking the least bit unusual or suspect -no discoloration-no evidence of fiddling  

anyone have a more thorough and helpful speculation please?



i am sure i can send it back, but would rather not, as these are rather hard to come by and often rather more than i paid (150)

(altho it was represented as likely unrun-but no mention of the water issue-which is apparent in the box lid -but not on the loco until you disassemble it and get a better look at the white metal parts - so i give the seller, a dealer, benefit of not knowing

 

[minimans]

Just run mine up on the bench Steve and flashy light works both direction's and bi directional lamps work fine. I suspect like you that your board has gone south................

 

[stevedenver]

yes i agree-but where

and how do i fix it?

 

[Spule 4]

Did Massouth make these boards? They may be able to help.

 

[themole]

Hi Steve, the loco has a higher start up voltage, the same as the pig's snout railbus, around 6-9 volts, so that part of the circuit is OK. Now, if you try a voltage test on the motor, remove the motor (to check the brushes)also keep the two ball bearings found each end of the motor shaft.THESE HAVE TO BE RE-FITTED AFTER CHECKING THE MOTOR. If the motor runs OK in either direction,replace back in the chassis with the ball bearings. Now time to check the circuit board, check all the diodes, with a multimeter and also if there is/are any dry joints. On the loco there is also a switch to change pick up from track to pantograph check again with the multimeter. It is realy a process of elimination. Alyn

 

[Neil Robinson]

I hope you prove me wrong, but I fear that fixing the board or obtaining a spare may prove impossible.
I suspect that the motor block is a fairly uncommon one, most of that type only have two connections with the motor connected to track pickups internally. However early pantograph fitted locos have one side only isolated and a third wire added to the connections to arrange for track or pantograph pickup options.
If you're in luck and it has four wires, or you are are prepared to modify the motor block to a four wire one, you could replace the circuit board with a dcc chip. Choose one such as an ESU lokpilot which works well on analogue and has various directional and flashing light outputs as well as programmable staring voltage.
Alternatively, but still needing four wires from the block, you could keep the circuit board for the functions that work and wire the motor via a chain of diodes if you can find room for them. 1N4004 diodes would be O.K. but I reckon you'd need ten and they would need a bit of space as they get warm. The non working directional light could be wired across A or B, one works for one direction, the other for the other.

 

[minimans]

I just remembered the earlier high volt start motors have a small Resister diode thingy on the side of the motor block which is just a push fit into the block. I had an early 2-6-2 that had a problem in one direction running and it turned out to be that. it can be replaced by a wire you just wont get the high volt start...............Paul.............

 

[stevedenver]

thanks to all

there are no issues with the motor as i mentioned-it runs fine-also is was not a ball bearing type-i think these are limited to the early clamshells-but i could be wrong-(the little FRR engines with belt drive still have thrust bearings) alas i digress

the motor block has no push fit diode

the motor block is a three wire design W-G-B colored wires 

i will decide if i wish to check each item in the board with a multi meter

or 
simply send it back so that the vendor can undertake repairs

while im inclined to fix it myself-the issue for me is that if i am unsuccessful-i will be blamed for the malfunction, due to a change in the condition of the item  -ie i discover, remove and replace a resistor or diode and it still doesnt work

i think ive just talked myself into simply sending it back for repair

i imagine-that from looking at both boards-it will take me about 2-3 hours-to systematically test each component -not to mention then determining the values and seeking a replacement...

shouldnt have to do this
-it wasnt so inexpensive so as to require me to undertake reapirs

if it were half price what i paid and i knew there was an issue-assumption of risk-then it would be OK 

 

[stevedenver]

problem solved..............







new board

 

[minimans]

Where did you find the board steve?

 

[stevedenver]

Bridgemasters

 

[Spule 4]

Steve, I checked their site, do they have them listed somewhere, I have a board I know I fried that I need to replace.....

 

[minimans]

I would like to find one for my track cleaner although it works it would be nice to have the lights working....................................

 

[stevedenver]

why dont you give jeff at bridgemasters a ring? he in placita as i recall-prompt and very good at execution as well as pricing-and very pleasant and fair  

hes now in 'cahoots' with barry -formerly of LGBOA-who is running a an independent repair on is own with ------PARTS-sort of the "sequel to silvergate' -but way better-trun around on my little 2033 was less than a week -including shipping both directions!!!!!!

ill bet you he can help you-and

there is no time like the present to secure what remaining items you may need-especially a board or someone that can repair it 

 

[stevelewis]

Cant rreally answer your Question BUT I bought a Brand new one of these back in the 70s and that was faulty straight out of the box! It ran forward in reverse it just shorted out, the cause was eventually found the cables to the light at the rear were bared and touching so forward theres no power to the light, in reverse theres WAS hence a short curcuit!

Obviously this is not the cause of your problem

I beleive that this loco is pre Massoth electronics

I just took delivery of a loco today it is coded 1991 and the boards in it are pre Massoth! but its just like new poss unrun ever!!

 

[Bredebahn]

See post #9 Steve!!

 

[stevedenver]

well its running properly now
very light-and not that easy to locate a spot for weights-i stuffed some flat tire weights into the cab out of sight-but its insignificant

it has the EAV (electronic starting delay) circuitry-which i sort of like and dont like-

the EAV allows the engine to sit lighted and flashing-while other trains pass by 

it makes it a bit more tricky to use double headed with other locos-

although, once the starting voltage (about 9v) is reached-the motor then runs at the same speeds as a stainz, steeple cab, 2060, 2090-etc

-so at higher voltage and a goodly pace-it will synch with other simple circuit locos-

i originally i bought a spare pantograph roof unit on ebay from....bridgemasters...which lead to the subsequent purchase of this loco

-now i have spare 'globes' for the flashers as well as a nice pristine red pantograph-just in case-had originally thought id put it on a 20900 and have 'flashy lights'-until i saw the antiquated copper contact springs for circuitry-and realized that the flashers werent contained in the roof  


the 2033 loco has two closely set togehter white flashing roof lights under globes like the cleaning loco

i removed the pantograph -just unscrews from the roof posts-makes the lights easier to see
-and painted the bulbs for the flashers with tamaya clear blue-which was not so good, very washed out and not brilliant

so i then stripped and re did in clear orange-much better

its fun and an interesting little loco-tempted to either insert real wood over the plastic orange decking

i really like the smaller old style hood light-which does not come with a lens but does have 5v lighting, as well as the stainz style lantern-with lens and 5v

and odd duck -and i dont even have overhead -but its just an unusual little loco that offers visual appeal to me-plus...its orange and has red wheels!

 

[minimans]

Here's mine Steve on duty as the station pilot on the old shed line.......................

 

[Neil Robinson]

and odd duck -and i dont even have overhead -but its just an unusual little loco that offers visual appeal to me-plus...its orange and has red wheels!

Take a look at the narrow gauge MOW in the link below.

The pantograph is, I believe, a standard fitting used not to supply power but to earth any overhead for safety reasons if it used on overhead electric lines.

http://whr.bangor.ac.uk/2005/oj-plasser0205.jpg