Getting started with Massoth DCC

Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
401
36
Eastern MA
If running engines on the old MTS system, the speed step in CV 29 was set for 14 speed steps, DC, and short addressing. With the Massoth system you can go to long addresses and even 28 or 128 speed steps depending on the decoder versions.
 

Software Tools

Registered
18 Jan 2013
54
5
Sydney, Australia
OK, so I linked it up using the LGB transformer and a bridge rectifier..... and everything worked fine, to the point where I was able to command a recent LGB MTS equipped two motor loco from the Navigator and look at CVs etc. I have had a notification from Australia Post that the Massoth 1200T is in Sydney and should be at my local Post Office on Monday, so I will be using that from here on.

I've also ordered the 2.GHz WiFi transmitter to go in the Navigator from Grootspoor, but it's out of stock, so that will just have use it tethered for the time being.

Re the new Massoth DiMAX power supplies, they are a standard commercial product from Mean Well. The generic data sheet can be found here

So thanks to nearly everyone for your comments.

In reply to the snarky private message I received (some of the comments I have seen in other forums about the individual concerned start to make sense), FYI.....

Keep Calm I Am an IEEE Member.jpg
 

LGB333

Active Member
He has the PC module so he can load his own sounds if he wishes.
The Massoth PC Interface Programming Modules I receive from Germany and sell on my Website come with a Thumb Drive with the Massoth Service Tool software on it.
 

LGB333

Active Member
OK, so I linked it up using the LGB transformer and a bridge rectifier..... and everything worked fine, to the point where I was able to command a recent LGB MTS equipped two motor loco from the Navigator and look at CVs etc. I have had a notification from Australia Post that the Massoth 1200T is in Sydney and should be at my local Post Office on Monday, so I will be using that from here on.

I've also ordered the 2.GHz WiFi transmitter to go in the Navigator from Grootspoor, but it's out of stock, so that will just have use it tethered for the time being.

Re the new Massoth DiMAX power supplies, they are a standard commercial product from Mean Well. The generic data sheet can be found here

So thanks to nearly everyone for your comments.

In reply to the snarky private message I received (some of the comments I have seen in other forums about the individual concerned start to make sense), FYI.....

View attachment 281910
The Massoth documentation states to use a switching DC power supply with the 1210Z Central Station. Using something different is a risk that possibly damages these expensive units and would negate the Massoth 12 months waranty.
 

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
5,057
708
San Diego
www.elmassian.com
Good luck, I tried to tell him to at least filter the rectified AC and I'm now "snarky"....

look at my explanation in post #10, clearly under heavy load the input power will vary wildly, not to mention not even regulated.

(of course being an electrical engineer I'm clearly not qualified)

Greg
 

Software Tools

Registered
18 Jan 2013
54
5
Sydney, Australia
For anyone who is interested, this is the data panel from a MW HRG-320H-24A power supply...

MW HLG-320H-24A data panel.jpg
 
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Software Tools

Registered
18 Jan 2013
54
5
Sydney, Australia
The Massoth documentation states to use a switching DC power supply with the 1210Z Central Station.
In fact, the documentation I received with the 1210Z says nothing at all about using a "switching DC power supply", but simply indicates...
External DC Voltage 1.jpg
also
External DC Voltage 2.jpg
and
External DC Voltage 3.jpg

I'd be interested in seeing where the reference to "switching DC Power" (or similar) is in Massoth documentation.
 

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
5,057
708
San Diego
www.elmassian.com
I use a similar power supply for my Zimo system, just more volts and amps...
meanwell.jpg


Very nice supplies (the Zimo system needs a total of 20 amps, and since it can put out 24 V DCC you need a few volts over)

BUT

Back to the input to the Massoth, I refer back to the beginning of the thread, when you wanted to use an AC supply with a rectified and not filtering.

413082_Capture.png


The bumpy red waveform (lower left), that goes to zero volts is what you were presenting to your Massoth unit, and you argued you did not need to filter it (the bottom right red line)

So do I take it now you are abandoning your initial unfiltered rectified AC supply for a quality DC supply?

Greg

Since I am indeed an electrical engineer, these "zero volts" 120 times a second puts a strain on the Massoth unit to provide nice stable DCC waveforms, especially under high load conditions.
 
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Software Tools

Registered
18 Jan 2013
54
5
Sydney, Australia
Since I am indeed an electrical engineer, these "zero volts" 120 times a second puts a strain on the Massoth unit to provide nice stable DCC waveforms, especially under high load conditions.

<sigh>

Since I am indeed an electrical engineer also, I am asking you directly..... do you have any Massoth documentation to support that assertion?
 

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
2,597
724
Ascot
Does the fact the Massoth product is called

8135501 DiMAX 1200T Switching Power Supply​

And
"This switching power supply is the ideal power supply for the central units and boosters of the DiMAX series."
have a bearing on this? I should add I am not an electrical engineer :)
 

Software Tools

Registered
18 Jan 2013
54
5
Sydney, Australia
Does the fact the Massoth product is called

8135501 DiMAX 1200T Switching Power Supply​

And
"This switching power supply is the ideal power supply for the central units and boosters of the DiMAX series."
have a bearing on this?

Not really. It is indeed ideal for Massoth that someone buys another of their products, but it does not say mandatory, or even necessary.

I've been looking at the older Massoth Central Stations and Boosters.... they accepted both AC and DC external power.

ME-8136501_1210z_rear_no_conn-800.jpg

Perhaps this was during a transitional period for LGB MTS product users, who could keep using the LGB power transformers with a Massoth Central Station and Boosters. However this is prima facie indication that Massoth did indeed design their products to work with rectified DC that was derived from an AC input.

The more recent Central Station and Booster units only accept DC external power (see warnings in the instructions a few messages back). However there is nothing in the current instructions for either Central Stations and Boosters that says anything other just DC.

There is nothing saying you must use a Massoth (or any other) switch-mode power supply or a filtered DC source.
 

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
5,057
708
San Diego
www.elmassian.com
jesus!

Post 1 - the OP indicates his intention to use Massoth 1200T AC power supply...
Posts 2 to 4 and post 8 say - say don't use that power supply, get the right power supply
BUT, in Post 9, the OP indicates that he can use a full wave bridge rectifier to convert AC to DC (WRONG!)
Post 10, I show the waveforms of AC rectified through a full wave bridge rectifier, and show this is NOT "DC" but pulsating DC with voltage levels of 0 120 times a second.
Post 11, a "thats just splitting hairs" is the response to me, clearly showing instead of taking information from a real engineer, he makes and obviously uneducated answer.

At that point I email the OP, instead of calling him out further on the forum, to indicate why he is wrong.

Posts 11 & 15 warn yet again not to use the 1200L with a full wave bridge.

Post 22 by the OP now chortles that he went ahead and everything works fine and accused me of a snarky provate message.

Posts 24 & 25 warn the OP yet again.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THE OP SHOWS THE CORRECT POWER SUPPLY

I effectively ask the OP if he has now changed the power supply.

AND I GET THE SNARKY COMMENT FROM THE OP WHEN ASKING IF HE IS NOW GOING TO USE A REAL DC SUPPLY

You should be thanking all the people trying to help you not destroy your equipment and the clear and technical information showing you the difference between simply rectified AC and filtered, low ripple DC.

I have a much stronger opinion of your "electrical engineer" talents, but if you would not accept simple fundamental facts and concepts, I have no hope of any kind of acknowledgement to any of the people who have expended considerable energy trying to help you protect your investment.

Greg Elmassian