Greg Elmassian
Guest
All very helpful information Tom, thank you!
ESU CabControl - Changing Address on LGB/MFX?
- Thread starter AMuller396
- Start date
Diesel2000
Registered
Greg, as I'm sure you know MFX is a shell that sits on top of DCC. The MSD3 decoders from marklin support multiple formats - MFX, MM, and DCC. As Tom mentioned I've done a fair amount of programming and research of these decoders. I only have a DCC system (Massoth) and have not used an Ecos or CS3 to program in MFX. There are some limitations with programming the decoders in DCC-only, namely around function mapping as discussed in other threads. Programming loco addresses, CV29, and CV50 (format) is as simple as it gets and I've never had any problems with those. I have addressed all my LGB locos with MSD3 decoders without issue.
As recommended by Marklin the unused formats should be disabled, so if you have a DCC system then you need to disable MFX and MM formats (and AC as the newer decodes support that too) by setting CV50=2 (DCC and analogue DC) because the heirarchy of formats the decoder uses is MFX, MM, then DCC. The only protocol you cant disable is DCC since its the base. Next you need to check CV29 (read it) and see its value and set that according to the proper CV29 values you want (short vs long address, analogue and digital, forward and reverse). Then either program CV1 for short address or CVs 17/18 for long address. That all follows the normal DCC protocol for programming.
Further I've been able to adjust volume CVs for certain sounds, etc. Whats very difficult, however, is function mapping changes, and that is better done via an MFX-capable system rather than in DCC. Its possible, but there are some quirks as the MSD3 decoders use strings for variables. Again we have discussed all that recently in other threads on here. I havent bothered with function mapping changes for MSD3 decoders in DCC at present as i havent had a real need to do so yet.
As recommended by Marklin the unused formats should be disabled, so if you have a DCC system then you need to disable MFX and MM formats (and AC as the newer decodes support that too) by setting CV50=2 (DCC and analogue DC) because the heirarchy of formats the decoder uses is MFX, MM, then DCC. The only protocol you cant disable is DCC since its the base. Next you need to check CV29 (read it) and see its value and set that according to the proper CV29 values you want (short vs long address, analogue and digital, forward and reverse). Then either program CV1 for short address or CVs 17/18 for long address. That all follows the normal DCC protocol for programming.
Further I've been able to adjust volume CVs for certain sounds, etc. Whats very difficult, however, is function mapping changes, and that is better done via an MFX-capable system rather than in DCC. Its possible, but there are some quirks as the MSD3 decoders use strings for variables. Again we have discussed all that recently in other threads on here. I havent bothered with function mapping changes for MSD3 decoders in DCC at present as i havent had a real need to do so yet.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
I agree, one of my early comments was to disable the MFX protocol in the decoder to just simplify, but I was chided several times for "irrelevant" remarks.... 
palmerston
trains
The High End LGB 26600 Rhb metal kroko Ge 6/6 I is equipped with the power buffer 55429 AT THE FACTORY and this causes initially reading erros on the DCC programming track. how do i know??? see post #13, Yep first hand experience.
In the manual of this trio LGB locos 26600, 26601, 26602 the power storage device is not mentioned.
Marklin (as the industries leading giant in h0 scale) & Trix have had m(fx) in their locomotives for many years , long before they started fitting them in LGB.
In the manual of this trio LGB locos 26600, 26601, 26602 the power storage device is not mentioned.
Marklin (as the industries leading giant in h0 scale) & Trix have had m(fx) in their locomotives for many years , long before they started fitting them in LGB.
Palmerston - That's an interesting data point about your specific LGB locomotive's power buffer and it's effect on programming the CVs. How do you then program the decoder?
But the vast majority of the Marklin-produced LGB locomotives with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decodes do not have those 55429 buffers installed by the factory and are easily programmed using DCC. I have three such locomotives in my personal collection and program them in DCC with no issues, and have tested brand new locomotives I'm selling to customers, or repairing customer locomotives with these MSD3 decoders. I don't normally "turn off" the mfx on them to do so, although a hobbyist's specific DCC system being used could determine whether it's required or not. I use the Massoth Dimax 1210Z digital system.
Yes, Marklin's mfx technology was developed and has been used in their smaller scale locomotive decoders for years. Marklin stopped using the Massoth produced DCC onboard decoders in 2014 when they started installing the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog onboard decoders into their LGB locomotives. From Wikipedia:
Marklin Digital
Märklin Digital appeared in 1979, an early digital command control system, built around Motorola parts. A later command control system was also rebranded as Märklin Digital.
Märklin first demonstrated their new digital control system at the Nürnberg Toy Fair in 1979. After further work by a third party under contract, the system was officially introduced in 1985, with most components built by Märklin. Later, Marklin contracted Bernd Lenz for additional locomotive decoders.
The Märklin Digital system offered simultaneous control of up to 80 locomotives and 256 accessories. 14 speed steps, and an accessory function which could be used for headlights or TELEX remote uncoupling.[3]
Digital logic components of that time were expensive and the system used Trinary logic for cost reduction. Early decoders could cost as the locomotives and the expense of upgrading to Marklin Digital was considerable.
Märklin Digital (mfx)
In 2004 a new Märklin digital control system was revealed. A new two way protocol allows for control of up 65,000 devices, locomotives can have up to 128 speed steps and 16 functions. Developed and manufactured by ESU for Märklin, later the brand Märklin System was replaced by Märklin Digital.
In 2013, the extended mfx+ digital system provided additional decoder features and also allows feedback with mfx+ equipped locomotives. The virtual fuel state of each mfx+ equipped locomotive can be set and monitored. For steam, boiler pressure and fire state can also be set, monitored, and controlled. Eventually, the locomotive must take fuel and water, as would the prototype.
Last edited:
For those DCC hobbyists with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog installed onboard decoders in their LGB locomotives, there is a low cost alternative to using either the Marklin CS3/CS3+ or ESU ECOS command stations for using mfx for programming the CVs. The Marklin Mobile Station2 is a small, handheld mfx command station that can program CVs, remap F Key functions, and even operate one or two locomotives in mfx. It was designed originally as a smaller device to plug into the CS3/CS3+ to operate trains on a mfx operating layout. You'll need a Marklin control box and a Marklin power supply to use the Mobile Station2 as shown below from my Website. I sell the Mobile Station2 for $95, plus $115 for the other items. The Mobile Station2 is limited to a 3 Watt, 1.8 amp power supply.
Last edited:
AMuller396
Registered
Guys, wow didn't receive updates on the conversation here.
Thomas, I don't recall speaking to you on the phone lol. Might have been somebody else with the same issue.
But to get back to the main Issue. I have been putting the train on a separate track to program it by itself. I do understand that Cabcontrol is DCC only, and I do understand the difference between short and long address. What I have little knowledge on is to change the CV to get to a different address either via long or short address.
I have been using the 26814 for 2 years now under 0003 since I had no reason to change it. I have tried multiple times to change the address with the Cabcontrol, However it always gives me "programming error" plus the Cabcontrol throttle light turns from Green to Red and the train itself slightly jolts. The decoder does also make a slight noise. I apologize I didn't tell you guys about the Green light turning red and the jolt, I thought that was normal until I started to think that the unit might be shutting itself off each time.
26600 has same issues above, but Palmerston dankje wel for telling us that it has the 55429 installed. Now I know what to do.
So per suggestions above I reached out on the ESU forum on this issue and "Keith M" from GB (maybe he's on here as well) has noted that the culprit could be the following:
"It looks/sounds like the current demanded by the loco during programming is above the acceptable upper limit set in the ICU. As a result, it cuts the power to prevent what it thinks could be a damagingly high current and reports a programming error. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way in the CabControl system to set a higher limit when programming larger scale/gauge locos like yours."
*Cabcontrol has a switch to turn up the voltage and the max is 21V which is set for G scale.
What are your thoughts on that answer Thomas?
With this info that I got, I have decided to just go ahead and purchase a CS3 (I chose this due to a good price I saw and availability compared to ECOS).
Thanks to everyone who chimed in on here
Thomas, I don't recall speaking to you on the phone lol. Might have been somebody else with the same issue.
But to get back to the main Issue. I have been putting the train on a separate track to program it by itself. I do understand that Cabcontrol is DCC only, and I do understand the difference between short and long address. What I have little knowledge on is to change the CV to get to a different address either via long or short address.
I have been using the 26814 for 2 years now under 0003 since I had no reason to change it. I have tried multiple times to change the address with the Cabcontrol, However it always gives me "programming error" plus the Cabcontrol throttle light turns from Green to Red and the train itself slightly jolts. The decoder does also make a slight noise. I apologize I didn't tell you guys about the Green light turning red and the jolt, I thought that was normal until I started to think that the unit might be shutting itself off each time.
26600 has same issues above, but Palmerston dankje wel for telling us that it has the 55429 installed. Now I know what to do.
So per suggestions above I reached out on the ESU forum on this issue and "Keith M" from GB (maybe he's on here as well) has noted that the culprit could be the following:
"It looks/sounds like the current demanded by the loco during programming is above the acceptable upper limit set in the ICU. As a result, it cuts the power to prevent what it thinks could be a damagingly high current and reports a programming error. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way in the CabControl system to set a higher limit when programming larger scale/gauge locos like yours."
*Cabcontrol has a switch to turn up the voltage and the max is 21V which is set for G scale.
What are your thoughts on that answer Thomas?
With this info that I got, I have decided to just go ahead and purchase a CS3 (I chose this due to a good price I saw and availability compared to ECOS).
Thanks to everyone who chimed in on here
Hi - Glad to hear back from you and thanks for the additional information. You indicated that you have the same problem with both locomotives in trying to program CV1, the addresses. But can you Read and Write (Program) the other CVs, or do you get the same error message as when trying to Write CV1? If so, then definitely there's an issue with your CabControl unit. I've sold 15 of the ESU CabControl Digital Systems to customers during the last year and no one has told me about any Read or Write issues. But I'm going to reach out to some of them that have LGB locomotives with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders installed to confirm that.
You apparently have already decided to purchase the Marklin CS3+ over the ESU ECOS command station so you can operate, and Read and Write the CVs, for your locomotives in mfx mode. Again, the MSD3 decoders will respond to a strictly DCC command station, including Reading and Writing CVs. Also, last year I sold an ECOS system to a customer of mine who already had the Marklin CS3+ and he definitely likes the ECOS features and operating protocols better than his CS3+. And you should be aware that Marklin is still in the development process to offer a wireless throttle for the CS3+. The wireless throttle you're currently using with your ESU CabControl also is used with the ECOS. I'm both a Marklin and ESU Dealer and sell both the CS3+ and the ESU command stations so I'm just passing on these data points for your consideration.
Lastly, I'd suggest you contact Alec Herman, the ESU USA Technical Support, to ask him about your CabControl problem of Writing CV1 address changes. But again, I'd like your response on whether you can Read the CVs (their existing assigned values) on both locomotives, and also Write (program) the other CVs (other than CV1) on both locomotives or not. Alec will certainly ask you the same questions. Alec is available Tuesdays and Thursdays, 8am - 3:30pm, telephone 570-980-1980, and email support@loksound.com.
Last edited:
By the way, here is another much cheaper option shown on my Website for Reading and Writing CVs on your LGB locomotives with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders installed instead of buying either the Marklin CS3+ or the ESU ECOS command stations to do so. You can use the below MD-Electronics PC Programming Module and be able to Read and Write all the DCC CVs in your locomotives.
Diesel2000
Registered
CV29 sets whether the loco uses 2 digit (short) or 4 digit (long) addresses.
Here is a table of all the CV29 values.
KB239: CV29 - Look-Up Table Method
www.digitrax.com
If you have digital locomotives this is one of the most important CVs to understand as it controls address, speed steps, direction, and whether analogue it enabled.
For short addresses (up to 128) you write them in CV1. For long addresses you write them in CVs 17 and 18. Long address calculator can be found here and will tell you what values to program in both CV 17 and 18
Programming track output typically are about 200ma, which is sufficient to program MSD3 decoders.
As Tom mentioned the ECOS would make more sense for you since you can connect the CabControl wireless throttle to it. The CS3 does not have a wireless throttle. Both systems support MFX, which then makes MSD3 recognition easier as they have unique addresses for each loco/decoder already.
AMuller396: "With this info that I got, I have decided to just go ahead and purchase a CS3 (I chose this due to a good price I saw and availability compared to ECOS)." You mention the CS3.........the CS3+ is the latest version with additional features compared to the CS3. But either one will operate your locomotives in mfx, and you can Read & Write CVs in mfx. Since you already have the ESU Mobile Control II wireless throttle used with your CabControl, you'd only have to buy the ECOS unit. My ECOS price is $675 and in stock.
Wrong - the CS3 and CS3+ both came out at the same time. The difference being the CS3+ has 1 S88 bus built in. Everything else is identical including the processor, operating system and Märklin Central Station software. A CS3, Terminal 60145, and L88 60833 gives 3 S88 buses and more expansion capability for less cost than a CS3+ with its single S88 bus. The only advantage to the CS3+ is that it can be slaved to a CS3 or additional CS3+s. Additional CS3+s do not add processing power - they are essentially additional wired controllers. Buying multiple CS3+s is a real waste of money in my view!
This is correct, the CS3/CS3+ do not have a dedicated wireless throttle available. Märklin gave up on it when they went with built-in web browser based server. Connecting the CS3 to a wireless network router allows for all the wireless web browser based controllers you could ever want be they smartphones, tablets, or even laptops. The only drawback to the browser based controller is not having a throttle knob or hard function switches. I personally have not found this to be a significant issue.
Phil - Okay, if they were actually produced the same year, I'm not technically correct to say the CS3+ is the latest model. But you've confirmed my statement that the CS3+ has more features.
Just a side note, do you realize your response's tone is a little strong and off-putting: "Wrong"! Using something like "Actually, both devices were produced the same year" would make the same point......just a suggestion. And I appreciate your clarification.
Background History: Marklin partnered with Massoth to develop a wireless throttle and receiver for the CS2/3/3+ and the products were announced in 2019, the LGB 55017 and 55057 but the products were never distributed to dealers. And in 2020 Marklin announced that it had ended that effort with Massoth (no explanation provided) and a wireless throttle and receiver would not be available until the end of 2022.
Sorry if I offended. It just appeared to me you were implying the CS3+ was a better unit. This is simply not the case. I suggest you carefully review the Large Manual Controlling Digitally with the Central Station 3 from Software 2.0, Märklin Item No. 03093 and the overall system architecture before suggesting the CS3+ is somehow newer or better than the CS3. Better yet get some real operating experience with the CS3/CS3+.
I agree, newer and more expensive is not always the better product. I was making some general statements about the CS3+ product, particularly compared to the ESU ECOS unit, and did not intend to recommend the CS3+ over the CS3. In fact, I've heard other CS3 users' opinions, just like your opinion, that the CS3+ is not worth the extra money over buying the CS3. Actually, my preference would be to buy the ESU ECOS command station over the Marklin CS3/3+ for various reasons, and I'm a dealer for both. I have a retired doctor customer who bought the ECOS from me, and he already owned and used the Marklin CS3+, and definitely likes the ECOS better. But, just like buying a car model, it's all a matter of individual choice.
AMuller396
Registered
Just wanted to update everyone, that even when using the Cabcontrol in the read write CV section when inputting CV 1 it gives me an programming error message.
Thomas has noted on the phone that it might also be that my Cabcontrol is broken. But since Im over the 2 year warranty period, I might just sell on ebay.
I went the CS3 route cause I wasn't really satisfied with the small screen on the cabcontrol throttle and the minimal battery life (2-3 hours), and what Phils2um says I can use a Tablet with a bigger screen and walk the layout with a CS3.
Thanks
I mentioned this to Andrew when we talked yesterday on the phone. I've contacted one of my customers that bought the ESU CabControl System from me and he's going to Read and Write a CV on his MSD3-equipped LGB locomotive and report back to me the results in a couple days.......and I'll share it with everyone.
I suspect there's no issue with the CabControl Reading and Writing CVs on these LGB locomotives with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decodes. I can do so with my Massoth DiMax 1210z Command Station and the new MD-Electronics (MDE) PC Decoder Programming Module, as I've already mentioned, I'm now selling as an MDE Dealer on my Website.
I suspect there's no issue with the CabControl Reading and Writing CVs on these LGB locomotives with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decodes. I can do so with my Massoth DiMax 1210z Command Station and the new MD-Electronics (MDE) PC Decoder Programming Module, as I've already mentioned, I'm now selling as an MDE Dealer on my Website.
Hi Andrew - Make sure you pick up a copy of the "Large Manual" item no. 03093. This manual has a lot more information on the CS3 including more extensive instructions on setting up and using the web interface beginning page 77. It's well worth the $25-30 investment. Most of the on-line Märklin retailers have it in stock.