Correct type of outdoor cable to use with LGB point motors

[Laney’s confused again]

As i prepare my railway for spring use i’ve found that a number of my LGB point motor connectors have corroded with the wire connections turning to metal dust.

Obviously i’m not weatherproofing the connections to motors correctly but what electrical wire should i use and how to keep the point motor connections in good order

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Did the wire corrode, or did the mounting screws rust?

mainly covering the connection with grease will keep air out, and stop corrosion.

Trying to waterproof might involve silicon rubber, and hard to remove if you disconnect.

There are anti-corrosion sprays, like lanoline based used in the boating/marine industry.

Greg

 

[Laney’s confused again]

Did the wire corrode, or did the mounting screws rust?

mainly covering the connection with grease will keep air out, and stop corrosion.

Trying to waterproof might involve silicon rubber, and hard to remove if you disconnect.

There are anti-corrosion sprays, like lanoline based used in the boating/marine industry.

Greg

 

[Laney’s confused again]

Hi Greg,

The wire corroded. Is there a preferred gauge of wire and is it worth soldering the wire to hive protection?

 

[trammayo]

Hi Greg,

The wire corroded. Is there a preferred gauge of wire and is it worth soldering the wire to hive protection?

I use oxygen free cable - 328 Feet/100M 18AWG Oxygen Free Copper Speaker Cable 2mm Thick OFC 2X 40 Strands | eBay

I don't bother with electrically operated points anymore, but the cable is useful for power feeds. As regards connecting the wires, I use crimp-on connectors which can be also soldered - 120x Soldering Lugs Tags Wire Terminals Crimp Cable Connectors 2.2mm-6.2mm | eBay

The above links are just examples. When soldering, if you use a "self cleaning" flux, this must be neutralised after soldering as it remains active otherwise!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

stranded wire corrodes more quickly than solid. Solid is preferred outside where moisture can get it.

If you must use stranded feeder, then solder a short length of solid core, and then moistureproof the splice, good heatshrink or liquid tape, etc.

crimping on connectors works nice, but again, the space between strands can wick moisture under the insulating jacket.

crimping, then soldering (which makes sense to me) is actually frowned, believe it or not, but then you can waterproof it where the soldered wire strands go into the jacket.

if you use rosin core solder, it does not need neutralization... if you use acid core solder, well that is just plain wrong for wiring... and unnecessary...

Greg

 

[Laney’s confused again]

I use oxygen free cable - 328 Feet/100M 18AWG Oxygen Free Copper Speaker Cable 2mm Thick OFC 2X 40 Strands | eBay

I don't bother with electrically operated points anymore, but the cable is useful for power feeds. As regards connecting the wires, I use crimp-on connectors which can be also soldered - 120x Soldering Lugs Tags Wire Terminals Crimp Cable Connectors 2.2mm-6.2mm | eBay

The above links are just examples. When soldering, if you use a "self cleaning" flux, this must be neutralised after soldering as it remains active otherwise!

Thanks for the advice

stranded wire corrodes more quickly than solid. Solid is preferred outside where moisture can get it.

If you must use stranded feeder, then solder a short length of solid core, and then moistureproof the splice, good heatshrink or liquid tape, etc.

crimping on connectors works nice, but again, the space between strands can wick moisture under the insulating jacket.

crimping, then soldering (which makes sense to me) is actually frowned, believe it or not, but then you can waterproof it where the soldered wire strands go into the jacket.

if you use rosin core solder, it does not need neutralization... if you use acid core solder, well that is just plain wrong for wiring... and unnecessary...

Greg

greg thanks for the advice. Looks like Easter will be be spent replacing wiring!

 

[viaEstrecha]

I found exactly the same issue on some old point motor wiring, where both the metal and outer covering turned to dust. I've now replaced all my exterior cabling with automotive/marine 1mm copper (rated 24V 16.5A), either as flat twin or 4 core and with there being two layers of sheath, there is no chance of it breaking down when exposed to sun and weather. It is still good and flexible, though, and not too thick, so easy to use. I also try to put my all wiring inside conduit all the way to the final connection, as further precaution against hungry mice! I also solder the bare wire going into the drive and pack that and the screw holes with graphite grease, just for fun.

 

[maxi-model]

A lot of issues will come down to the environment you operate your line in. Apart from the suggestion of using some type of "grease" to protect the wires and terminals from corrosion/oxydisation there is the fact that the local bugs find the motors a great place to bring up their young. Many a time I have had to dismantle an LGB point motor (very simple and staightforward) to remove the detritus left by a spider's reproductive efforts. I used stranded wire and tinned the ends to stop any fraying and minimise corrosion note - use an acid free flux, e.g. rosin.

I surmised one of the main issues, apart from the generally damp climate in my part of the UK, the main issues I had was caused by my line being mostly in full or part shade. In the end I switched to the Sunset Valley Railroad's Clipard based pneumatic system of point motors, a straight fit to LGB switches/points. I use a small silent compressor with 2 litre reservoir to power it. I use a default orention, when installing the motors, to ensure it power fails I still in the main have an operable basic layout to use. I even use then to power my signals, wood a white metal kit built, both single a double bracket. Total reliability at last. Max

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I do the same, but use the components from the place Sunset Valley buys them from, Clippard. (much cheaper), I use 24v solenoids from a track powered 4 switch motor driver module which is about $15 per switch/turnout.

Likewise I mount them so no pressure is the normal route, but I never lose pressure, it is less wear on the air cylinders.

Greg

 

[stevedenver]

As for corrosion and spiders, while wd40 is often mis recommended,
wd40 will repel the spiders and inhibit corrosion.

not as long lasting as grease, but very easy to re-apply, especially with the long narrow tube nozzle.

living in dry Colorado, , while i do get some sort of creepy bugs in my switch motor boxes, and rarely, slight green residue on the contact clamp plates from copper wire, ive not had any wire disentegrate.

if you can find some, telephone company single strand wire, while very small, is amazing, and flexible.

 

[Niels Hansen]

I also experienced corosion and rustet screws.I was able to buy new new print screw terminals at my lokal Electronics shop. They cost about 1 dollar.It is easy to solder the Old out and the new in.

 

[justme igor]

A small remark.
While some live in dry country's, some live in wet weather conditions.
Wd40 how exelent that stuff can be I found out it will contract some moister in a giving point.

Indeed solid wire is better than that stranded wire.

What I like to use is data cable not the network or USB cables but with a 0.75mm core.
Often used in signal boxes up to 16 cables in one housing or the fire signal cable.

My two cents

 

[ge_rik]

stranded wire corrodes more quickly than solid. Solid is preferred outside where moisture can get it.

Greg

I concur with that. I connected my point motors to a central control box with what we in the UK call "twin and earth" solid copper cables sixteen years ago and so far had no problems with cable corrosion. I've had a couple of the terminal blocks inside the motors themselves fail, though.

Rik

 

[chris m01]

I've used copper wire for the last 20 years or so and never had a problem with the wire. The connectors inside the motor rust solid but not the wire. Nowadays I just solder a short length of wire direct to the wire inside the point motor and use an external connector which makes removing point motors for servicing (basically removing remains of critters) a lot easier. I keep a spare point motor so if one gives me an issue I just swap it out and service the troublesome one later. I've always been impressed with the way LGB motors cope with being outside for so many years with only the odd clean up.

 

[Gerard]

Here is a comment on corrosion i wrote in here some time ago that may be usefull for you:
Do not forget to add some liquified Molykote Cu 7439 Plus Paste at your rail joints.
Note: Preliquify it using petrol untill it is fluid like oil, so it creeps in all corners of the joints.
This prevents electric contact problems for many years.
It works so well since the petrol will dissolve in the air again leaving the remaining thick paste to stay on the joins.
The paste is so strong that it will not be washed away by rain.
The result is a perfect corrosion cover of the brass rail with the cupper particles making a very good electric contact.

Applying this liquified paste on your wires will have the same positive result against corrosion. The fluid will be sucked into the wire between the separate strings thus preventing any oxidation for many years. The paste is extremely heat resistant and resists the flushing off by rain.