Budget Battery Options

[Fast_Fr8_]

Hello All,

I recently acquired a Hartland Mack Railbus from a dear friend who passed away are year or two ago.
I am in the process of converting it to Battery R/C.

I'd trying to keep this installation on a slim budget, and batteries can push up costs significantly.
What sort of batteries would you all recommend for a budget conversion?
(Chemistry, size, voltage, brand, etc.)

The space available in the baggage compartment is about 3 inches squared, and I hope to get 3-4 hours of runtime at nominal to medium speed (12v or less).

 

[Rhinochugger]

NiMh batteries sized AA would suffice. Ideally I'd go for an Eneloop or similar make for Low Self Discharge.

14.4v should be adequate - 12 cells. You can use two 7.2v packs in series if necessary.

Not sure about US suppliers, but it's far better to go for a battery pack, than to use single cells in multi-battery holders.

All you then need is a smart charger for NiMh batteries - again, not pricey.

 

[maxi-model]

Problem with battery conversions is you will need a speed controller of some type, as well as battery pack and charger. There are simple "volume switch" types and then there are those that can be radio controlled, but that adds to cost. Battery packs of sufficiant voltage, and giving you near the run time you want AA or sub C size, if NiMH chemistry, are about £35 - £45 at UK prices, same again for a smart charger that can handle the voltage. The speed controller (if simple non RC) and switchgear/charger socket/fuse side will add £25. Much more if you go RC control. You are looking at £150 to get started. Give Del Taporo, at G Scale Graphics in the US a call, well known and trusted, has some interesting kit. Click on link - Electronics or RCS Remote Control Systems | RemoteControlThrottles.com

 

[dunnyrail]

Problem with battery conversions is you will need a speed controller of some type, as well as battery pack and charger. There are simple "volume switch" types and then there are those that can be radio controlled, but that adds to cost. Battery packs of sufficiant voltage, and giving you near the run time you want AA or sub C size, if NiMH chemistry, are about £35 - £45 at UK prices, same again for a smart charger that can handle the voltage. The speed controller (if simple non RC) and switchgear/charger socket/fuse side will add £25. Much more if you go RC control. You are looking at £150 to get started. Give Del Taporo, at G Scale Graphics in the US a call, well known and trusted, has some interesting kit. Click on link - Electronics or RCS Remote Control Systems | RemoteControlThrottles.com

Sound advice Max.

 

[Paul M]

Hello All,

I recently acquired a Hartland Mack Railbus from a dear friend who passed away are year or two ago.
I am in the process of converting it to Battery R/C.

I'd trying to keep this installation on a slim budget, and batteries can push up costs significantly.
What sort of batteries would you all recommend for a budget conversion?
(Chemistry, size, voltage, brand, etc.)

The space available in the baggage compartment is about 3 inches squared, and I hope to get 3-4 hours of runtime at nominal to medium speed (12v or less).

Don't forget, like everything else, you tend to get what you pay for. Cheaper batteries might work well, but their life time may be limited

 

[ge_rik]

Of course, lithium ion battery packs are less expensive than NiMh. For example, a 3S lipo will cost around £12GBP from Hobbyking - eg https://hobbyking.com/turnigy-2200mah-3s-40c-lipo-pack-w-xt60.html?stock_id=8

Lipo batteries need to be charged with a dedicated charger such as the iMax B6 (c£30GBP).

Manual control will set you back £3GBP (https://ebay.io/m/fgLQDw)

A relatively cheap way of controlling your loco remotely is Loco Remote. A 12v receiver is £44GBP. Rather than having to also buy a transmitter, you use a phone app. Loco Remote I'm not sure if they post to USA but there might be a USA based equivalent.

There a few garden rail modellers so are deeply suspicious of li-ion batteries because of their potential volatility. In my experience they are fine if they are treated with care and respect. After all, your phone, tablet and laptop are all powered with them. I have 30 locos powered with li-ion battery packs (most of them home made from individual 18650 or 14500 cells) and, so far, over the past twelve years, have had no issues.

See my blog for more info - A quick introduction to batteries for model trains

Rik

 

[dunnyrail]

Another option that just needs batteries and the ability to put it together yourself is the Piko 35040 Rx and Tx setup. Around €67 in UK we would pay around £80, must be available in USA? I have one and though not too fond of the way the buttons work once you get used to it tis fine.

Piko 35040 Gauge G R/C Loco Receiver, 5A, w/Pocket Remote modellbahnshop-lippe.com

modellbahnshop-lippe.com - Online Shop for model trains and accessories - Märklin • PIKO • Roco • Trix • Fleischmann • ✓ Great offers ✓ Great selection ✓ Short delivery time ✓ Top service

www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com

 

[Northsider]

I don't know the model that you are using, but as you've mentioned 12 volts, I'll assume that the motor is rated 12v, so 6v or 8v will give you a reasonable scale speed. The cheapest way, in terms of initial spend, is to buy disposable 1.5v AA or AAA cells, a holder or two for them, and an on/off switch. Disconnect any wheel pickups that may be on the model, connect the batteries to the motor via the switch, and off you go. That will give you one direction, at one speed. I have a rail truck built extremely cheaply that does this: it can trundle round for a couple of hours, but isn't controllable. Reversing, and speed control are extra -i.e. they cost more. It depends what you want, and how much you are prepared to spend on it. Start basic and build up, or go full RC (plus soundcard?).

 

[GAP]

Cheapest and easiest way to use battery in a loco
R/C can come later and PhilP would be the man to talk to member on here


How to wire a switch to make a reversing switch

how to use a motor speed controller

Motor speed controller look for something like this on anazon

Amazon.com: Low Voltage DC Motor Speed Controller PWM 1803BK 1.8V 3V 5V 6V 12V 15V 2A Low Voltage Speed Regulator Control Module Adjustable Driver (1.8V to 15V) : Industrial & Scientific

Buy Low Voltage DC Motor Speed Controller PWM 1803BK 1.8V 3V 5V 6V 12V 15V 2A Low Voltage Speed Regulator Control Module Adjustable Driver (1.8V to 15V): Motor Speed Controllers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[GAP]

There a few garden rail modellers so are deeply suspicious of li-ion batteries because of their potential volatility. In my experience they are fine if they are treated with care and respect. After all, your phone, tablet and laptop are all powered with them. I have 30 locos powered with li-ion battery packs (most of them home made from individual 18650 or 14500 cells) and, so far, over the past twelve years, have had no issues.


Rik

I agree Rik; if you treat Li-Po's with care they are safe, but treat them like the model plane and car brigade with rapid charge and discharge and poor storage and handling and you are asking for trouble.
Also using a cheap and nasty fast charger instead of an intelligent balance charger is definitely a recipe for fireworks.

 

[PhilP]

... And if you are averse to soldering:

I will sell you a pre-wired reversing switch for £2.50.


PhilP.

 

[FatherMcD]

Another option that just needs batteries and the ability to put it together yourself is the Piko 35040 Rx and Tx setup. Around €67 in UK we would pay around £80, must be available in USA? I have one and though not too fond of the way the buttons work once you get used to it tis fine.

Piko 35040 Gauge G R/C Loco Receiver, 5A, w/Pocket Remote modellbahnshop-lippe.com

modellbahnshop-lippe.com - Online Shop for model trains and accessories - Märklin • PIKO • Roco • Trix • Fleischmann • ✓ Great offers ✓ Great selection ✓ Short delivery time ✓ Top service

www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com

I use the PIKO, LocoRemote, RailBoss 4+ from gscalegraphics.net, Xnenpow and the discontinued Monocacy system. Yeah, I like to experiment.

The PIKO is mainly in PIKO locos that provided for an easy installation. PIKO may tend to be expensive, I paid $108 for the TX/RX combo earlier this year. Each remote is tied to one receiver.

I like the small size of the LocoRemote. One caution: watch the battery voltage very carefully. Their controls are rated for actual voltage, not nominal! For instance, the Maxi is rated for 15V MAXIMUM. A Li-Ion battery rated at 14.4 or 14.8 volts will fry it! Those batteries can peak at 16.8V when fully charged. LocoRemote explains this in their battery selection and wiring guide, but it's easy to overlook. I almost installed a 14.8V battery in a loco, but it wouldn't fit, so I went with 11.1V. I was lucky, I forgot the limitation. LocoRemote has sold to the US in the past, but aren't shipping right now due to parts shortages. You can use any device with a touch screen and Wi-Fi capability. I use Amazon fire tablets and even an old Windows cell phone without a SIM or service. The prices were better than PIKO, even with shipping and tariffs, but you'll need to check with them later.

The RailBoss 4+ is the most versatile. I use it mainly for main line engines. It has several features the others lack, but tends to be on the large side.

As for using Li-Ion batteries, get the better quality ones from a reputable supplier. I like the bulk LG batteries from batteryjunction.com to fit in battery holders or the KeepPower battery packs from illumn.com. ALWAYS buy batteries (lithium) with a built-in protection circuit. You could add your own, but it is hardly worth the expense and effort. Also, ALWAYS add a fuse in the battery circuit, like the PolySwitch fuses from Amazon. I have found the general consensus is that balance charging isn't needed for our railroad use.

Finally, I've tried some of the Xnenpow remotes from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FKHKPXYV They're quite inexpensive and have worked well for me. I mostly use them for the locos I gift to the grandchildren or let them run on my railway. Far more limited than some of the better units and don't really have a good interface for a sound board, but a cheap way to get started.

You can get other sources from Garden Railroading News and www.grnews.org. They have stopped publishing, but you can still download back issues as of today.

Take it slow, research your options and have fun!

 

[ge_rik]

I use the PIKO, LocoRemote, RailBoss 4+ from gscalegraphics.net, Xnenpow and the discontinued Monocacy system. Yeah, I like to experiment.

The PIKO is mainly in PIKO locos that provided for an easy installation. PIKO may tend to be expensive, I paid $108 for the TX/RX combo earlier this year. Each remote is tied to one receiver.

I like the small size of the LocoRemote. One caution: watch the battery voltage very carefully. Their controls are rated for actual voltage, not nominal! For instance, the Maxi is rated for 15V MAXIMUM. A Li-Ion battery rated at 14.4 or 14.8 volts will fry it! Those batteries can peak at 16.8V when fully charged. LocoRemote explains this in their battery selection and wiring guide, but it's easy to overlook. I almost installed a 14.8V battery in a loco, but it wouldn't fit, so I went with 11.1V. I was lucky, I forgot the limitation. LocoRemote has sold to the US in the past, but aren't shipping right now due to parts shortages. You can use any device with a touch screen and Wi-Fi capability. I use Amazon fire tablets and even an old Windows cell phone without a SIM or service. The prices were better than PIKO, even with shipping and tariffs, but you'll need to check with them later.

The RailBoss 4+ is the most versatile. I use it mainly for main line engines. It has several features the others lack, but tends to be on the large side.

As for using Li-Ion batteries, get the better quality ones from a reputable supplier. I like the bulk LG batteries from batteryjunction.com to fit in battery holders or the KeepPower battery packs from illumn.com. ALWAYS buy batteries (lithium) with a built-in protection circuit. You could add your own, but it is hardly worth the expense and effort. Also, ALWAYS add a fuse in the battery circuit, like the PolySwitch fuses from Amazon. I have found the general consensus is that balance charging isn't needed for our railroad use.

Finally, I've tried some of the Xnenpow remotes from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FKHKPXYV They're quite inexpensive and have worked well for me. I mostly use them for the locos I gift to the grandchildren or let them run on my railway. Far more limited than some of the better units and don't really have a good interface for a sound board, but a cheap way to get started.

You can get other sources from Garden Railroading News and www.grnews.org. They have stopped publishing, but you can still download back issues as of today.

Take it slow, research your options and have fun!

Sound advice there. Very important to buy good quality li-ion cells or packs rather than cheap ones advertised on eBay. And protection is essential. Not only against short circuit or over charging, but also against over discharging. Li-ion cells are permanently damaged if their charge falls below 2.8v. A BMS (battery management system) board will protect against all the above.

Rik

 

[GAP]

Sound advice there. Very important to buy good quality li-ion cells or packs rather than cheap ones advertised on eBay. And protection is essential. Not only against short circuit or over charging, but also against over discharging. Li-ion cells are permanently damaged if their charge falls below 2.8v. A BMS (battery management system) board will protect against all the above.

Rik

I have a board that plugs into the balance lead that gives an audible alarm if the cells drop to low recommended to be by a model plane bloke I worked with. He was where I learned about how they abuse their batteries eg rapid charge in under 10 minutes.

 

[ge_rik]

I have a board that plugs into the balance lead that gives an audible alarm if the cells drop to low recommended to be by a model plane bloke I worked with. He was where I learned about how they abuse their batteries eg rapid charge in under 10 minutes.

By comparison with the model plane and car brigade, we are a lot gentler when it comes to charging. I only charge my locos at a max of 0.5A which can take over three hours per loco. Why hurry?

Rik

 

[dunnyrail]

Interesting that during this discussion there have been a few adds for Lead Acid Batteries, the bots are watching us!

 

[Hal Farsed]

I use the PIKO, LocoRemote, RailBoss 4+ from gscalegraphics.net, Xnenpow and the discontinued Monocacy system. Yeah, I like to experiment (snip)

Not meaning to cause thread drift, but what happened to monocacy? I had great fun with one in my little Plymouth. Sounded like a much larger GM.

 

[FatherMcD]

Not meaning to cause thread drift, but what happened to monocacy? I had great fun with one in my little Plymouth. Sounded like a much larger GM.

I had several interactions with Shaun at Monocacy. The last email from him was Oct 11, 2019 when he supplied me with the API for the software. When I sent an email on Dec 9, 2019 noting that their website and Facebook page were gone and asking if they were still in business, I did not receive a reply. Pennsylvania SoS office shows the business as active but without a registered agent. Interestingly, Amazon still lists the software for download.