A Question about Rail Clamps

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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#21
Yes, reference the OP's OP when asking what the thread is about ha ha!

His question was about types 1 and 2, type 2 is split-jaw/hillman types, which are both with SS socket head cap screws (the allen type of socket) although Hillman and SJ use/used different allen sizes. I have the ball end drivers in both sizes.

Hillman used to make the nicest lift-out bridge clamps, and some nice nickel plated end of track bumpers. Did not like their clamps much, the square groove caused more stress risers and they cracked more often.

Greg
Glendale Junction in England supply Hillman Type Bridge Clamps. These have been produced for Glendale by presumably a local Engineering Artisan.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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27 Oct 2009
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#22
Hillman used to make the nicest lift-out bridge clamps, and some nice nickel plated end of track bumpers. Did not like their clamps much, the square groove caused more stress risers and they cracked more often.

Greg
I've mentioned this before, but Hillman are only OK with LGB track - Aristo track has a very slightly different profile at the base of the rail, and the Hillman clamp won't fit. The Accucraft clamp, with a sloping edge on the loose part of the clamp, will adjust to both rail profiles. (Can't speak for other track manufacturers as I haven't used them.) :nerd::nerd::nerd::nerd:
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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#23
I've mentioned this before, but Hillman are only OK with LGB track - Aristo track has a very slightly different profile at the base of the rail, and the Hillman clamp won't fit. The Accucraft clamp, with a sloping edge on the loose part of the clamp, will adjust to both rail profiles. (Can't speak for other track manufacturers as I haven't used them.) :nerd::nerd::nerd::nerd:

Take a look at (shown in stock) item 332-07 "Triad Clamp" Rail Clamps seems to suggest it might get over this problem. I have what appear to be "Hillman" direct to rail clamps for some Tenmille code 332 on my line. I bought them from Garden Rail Centre some years ago.

Its interesting that Glendale, as Jon mentioned, seem to have some Hillman items (or clones). I have the Glendale/Hillman bridge lift out clamps.
 
ebay mike

ebay mike

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6 Dec 2011
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#24
Not actually sure what manufacturers these are as they came from a variety of sources - some new and bagged, others attached to track. I can obviously tell the difference between just rail and over joiner ones, but some have 'splits' on either side. Not sure what the actual applications are but I just use what fits best, is easiest to put in place or the first one out of the box. The insulated ones have either brass or stainless steel screws.
109220_119ad563d4c537330378df53237ec90c.jpg
109221_418f022d7cf4de5b1b89dfb70e8e8f31.jpg
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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North West Norfolk
#25
Not actually sure what manufacturers these are as they came from a variety of sources - some new and bagged, others attached to track. I can obviously tell the difference between just rail and over joiner ones, but some have 'splits' on either side. Not sure what the actual applications are but I just use what fits best, is easiest to put in place or the first one out of the box. The insulated ones have either brass or stainless steel screws.
View attachment 245053 View attachment 245054
On the right and top right, I think they're Accucraft with the sloping edge that I was trying to describe :nod::nod:
 
SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

Registered
3 Jan 2010
58
42
#26
I have what appear to be "Hillman" direct to rail clamps for some Tenmille code 332 on my line.
My line was laid out originally with all Tenmille Code 332 track (though subsequently augmented with LGB). As the fishplates started to fail I was able to buy some Hillman 332-01TM clamps (buying up whatever Garden Railway Centres or Glendale Junction had in stock at the time) to restore connectivity. If only I had known that Hillmans were going to go out of business I'd have ordered a lot more. These days I resort to using Hillman clamps for standard LGB rail profile (332-01) with two short lengths of copper wire (one against the web, and one against the rail foot) to allow it to clamp tightly. It's a faff (especially on a cold day when the fingers aren't working properly) so I'd love to get hold of some more of the "proper" ones. So if any of you have any lying around (or have some "mystery clamps that don't quite fit your rail"), please send me a message. Happy to buy, or to do a one-for-one swap for standard 332-01 ones (or even Massoth-type, if I've got enough). I'm not in any hurry, so can look at ways of saving postage by meeting up at an exhibition, or whatever.

Best wishes

David
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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North West Norfolk
#27
My line was laid out originally with all Tenmille Code 332 track (though subsequently augmented with LGB). As the fishplates started to fail I was able to buy some Hillman 332-01TM clamps (buying up whatever Garden Railway Centres or Glendale Junction had in stock at the time) to restore connectivity. If only I had known that Hillmans were going to go out of business I'd have ordered a lot more. These days I resort to using Hillman clamps for standard LGB rail profile (332-01) with two short lengths of copper wire (one against the web, and one against the rail foot) to allow it to clamp tightly. It's a faff (especially on a cold day when the fingers aren't working properly) so I'd love to get hold of some more of the "proper" ones. So if any of you have any lying around (or have some "mystery clamps that don't quite fit your rail"), please send me a message. Happy to buy, or to do a one-for-one swap for standard 332-01 ones (or even Massoth-type, if I've got enough). I'm not in any hurry, so can look at ways of saving postage by meeting up at an exhibition, or whatever.

Best wishes

David
I've got some Hillman clamps spare that fit LGB rail perfick :nod::nod:

They reside in North West Norfolk, not far from HMQ's residence :cool:
 
SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

Registered
3 Jan 2010
58
42
#28
I've got some Hillman clamps spare that fit LGB rail perfick :nod::nod:
Unfortunately, those (332-01 in Hillman parlance) are the ones I have plenty of. The ones I'm looking for are the 332-01TM ones, that are shaped to fit the narrower foot of the Tenmille code 332 rail.

All the Best

David
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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#29
Unfortunately, those (332-01 in Hillman parlance) are the ones I have plenty of. The ones I'm looking for are the 332-01TM ones, that are shaped to fit the narrower foot of the Tenmille code 332 rail.

All the Best

David
Ah, sorry - keep searching :whew::whew:
 
D

Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
156
14
Eastern MA
#30
As far as I can see other than the "standard" rail joiners, there are three styles of rail clamp:
  1. Massoth - two screws along one side holding the rail and solid on the other
  2. Split-jaw/Hillman - two screws clamping one side and solid on the other, either on the rail or over the rail joiner according to type.
  3. Piko - four screws, two on each side holding the rail
I appreciate that there are other manufactures, of very similar type. My question is reference type 1 and 2 above, do you have the screws on the inside of the track or the outside of the track?
I am sure there will be quite some variance in thoughts, so thanks you in advance for your response.
Trainli has rail joiners with screws on one side only and they are available in brass or nickel plated and come with a add-on tab for power .connections.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
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#31
Trainli has rail joiners with screws on one side only and they are available in brass or nickel plated and come with a add-on tab for power .connections.
TrainLi is the US distributor/outlet for German Trainline45 products, so I assume that the clamps they are selling are TL45 ones - I think these are essentially the same as Massoth, but may be a little shorter (15mm rather than 19mm?), if they are the same ones recently introduced by Modell-Land under their own branding - I'm assuming that ML have got some kind of tie-in with TL45, because they (ML) are now offering their own track and points under their own brand label, which all look VERY much like TL45's products, and - a first for G scale track as far as I know - all the ML-branded track sections and points are supplied with the "short-Massoth-style" clamps included in the price, instead of the traditional push-on joiners.

Jon.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
#32
When I was building my current line I got a load of Massoth Clamps from Glendale. Originally for my Aristo 4ft Rad Curves. They were too long and whn I spoke to Brian he mentioned that I could get shorter ones which I subsequently did for the Aristo Curves. The longer ones were used in other area’s so no worries. Cant remember whethervthey were all Massoth or not but the measurements mentioned by Jon seam about right. I think if I needed some in the future I would always go for the shorter ones.

Oh and while on the subject anyone had any problems with Massoth Clamps for Peco Rail? Mine would not grip so I had to add small washers to make them work. Mentoned this to Brian at Glendale, he said that nobody else had complained and was very surprised when I demonstrated the problem to him in the Shop on a lenght of new Peco G Scale Track.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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#33
Mentoned this to Brian at Glendale, he said that nobody else had complained and was very surprised when I demonstrated the problem to him in the Shop on a lenght of new Peco G Scale Track.
Do Peco do a code 332 g scale track? :think: - Presumably they do??
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
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North Essex
#36
Do Peco do a code 332 g scale track? :think: - Presumably they do??
I think not....don't they just have code 200 for Gauge 1 and code 250 for "G".....?

But I think that Massoth make a clamp sized for code 250, which is presumably what JonD is talking about.

Jon.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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#37
Jon,
Do you mean Piko? - Who do a code 332 rail..
OR
Do you mean Peco, in which case, don't think they do a code 332 rail?? :think:
It's been made worse by Piko senior management in the US declaring that the name is pronounced pee-ko, while us Brits are happy calling it pie-co to distinguish between our beloved premier brand of model railway paraphernalia (including some very decent 009 models :nod::nod: )
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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#38
Massoth, as far as I can see, make only one profile of rail clamp (in various forms for assorted applications) and that is made to fit the LGB profile code 332 flat bottom rail and its compatibles. It's the dimensions of the foot of the rail that determines if it will clamp securely with the railheads aligned correctly.

Peco only make a code 200 or 250 (G) 45 mm track systems but a conventional rail joiner adaptor (not clamp) to mate their code 250 rail only to the more common LGB type code 332 is needed

And just to confuse things further Tenmille do a flat bottom code 332 rail based 45 mm track system but that will not mate and align to the LGB type without a special rail joiner, a similar slide on adaptor to the Peco code 250. But Hillan did make a direct to rail joiner specifically for the Tenmille code 332 based system, to itself not the LGB profile code 332 rail. The Massoth rail clamps will not secure this profile of rail as the base of the rail is too narrow. Oh, and Tenmille also make both a flat bottom and bull head code 210 rail system for 45 mm gauge. Confused you will be :think: Max
 
muns

muns

Moderator
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#39
Massoth make Nickel Plated rail clamps for Code 250 rail (Part nos 81026xx) as well as Brass (81001xx) & Nickel Plated (81024xx) for code 332.

The code 250 version is markets as Gauge 1, and the 332 versions as G.

At this point in time I have only supplied the brass versions of the clamps for Code 332 rail, I will order the other versions upon request.
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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#40
Ah, I see. I wondered why they made the distinction between all the G Gauge and the nickle plated item termed "Track 1" on their web site. I should have clicked on it. I stand corrected. Max